Are American men just fed up with women?


Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – Are American men just fed up with women?

Are American men just fed up with women?
rjmck
Contributor
rjmck

Well, I guess we’re all agreed then…. conservative male chauvanist pigs don’t want to marry bitchy feminist sows. Who can blame any of them? Seriously, like the English prof, I’m disheartened by the level of hatred expressed by both men and women against each other in these threads. When you cut through all of the rhetoric, though, one thing seems to be emerging. American men seem to be pretty much fed up with American women — not just career women, and not just because they’re threatened, as true as that often is. But what I’m hearing here is a growing sense of anger about the way men are treated in this culture…and yes, I know, I know, women were treated badly, and continue to be treated badly, as well. But that seems to be sufficient justification for many women to treat men badly in response, a clear double standard, which feminists claim they are against. And when men raise legitimate grievances, issues that would get a serious hearing if women raised them, they’re told to “grow up, stop whining, be a man, the problem is in your pants” etc. comments which actually support the claim that many women in America are as sexist as the men.
As for the claim that men don’t want to marry career women, that is probably true for many of them, and due to the influence of what sociologists call “female hypergamy”, the tendency of women in all cultures to want to marry men whom they perceive as being superior — being wealthy, taller, older etc. Although many men may objectify women as sex objects, many women not only do the same thing (check out Chippendale dancers, for example) but also treat men as money objects. The result is that career women are now attracted to men whom they percieve to be higher on the social ladder than their husbands, and so move on. This is what many traditional men fear, and for good reason. Better not to become involved with such women in the first place. As for those “alpha males” who attract many women (check out rock stars and athletes) there is no reason to settle for one woman when so many are available. So who’s left? Mediocre men who will settle for women who don’t respect them. And so many men are left living lives of quiet desperation in which they are blamed for everything that causes their wives to be so dissatisfied with their lives as well. Welcome to American marriage in the 21st century.
So as hard as this is to hear, ladies, there are probably good reasons why many men — not just traditional ones– are deciding to avoid women, or at least avoid marriage. When you objectively assess the entire package, it’s just not worth it. And never mind the old fashioned notions of romance and love — as far as men are concerned, these are just sexist myths meant to trap men into supporting women. Liberation of women also means liberation for men, a concept, it seems, that many modern women just don’t get.
This may be threatening for many of you career women out there– which explains the vehemence of your responses– but maybe American men just aren’t into you anymore.

08-28-2006 06:50 PM

Re: Are American men just fed up with women?
Cassius
Regular Contributor
Cassius
I think the divorce laws are to blame. If she is a bad wife because she does not really care about her husband after 5 years she wins in court while a man has to buy his way out if he is unhappy. In a marriage you have not to do everything to keep each other happy you have to do everything to keep your wife happy starting with the marriage which became HER day. Why would a man want to marry if he can only draw or loose ? Also about half of the women have divorced parents and are therefore not marriagabel annyway

08-28-2006 07:02 PM

Re: Are American men just fed up with women?
Romulus
Regular Contributor
Romulus
Excellent post. I think one positive consequence of the article is that its forcing men to truly reevaluate the whole package called marriage. You don’t have to be a genius to figure out in this culture where men have greater access to sex b/c of the sexually liberated female, anti-male marriage laws, divorce rates, no rights/all demands marriages, etc. It creates the incentive for men NOT to marry.

Message Edited by Romulus on 08-28-2006 07:22 PM

08-28-2006 07:21 PM

Re: Are American men just fed up with women?
miscwit
Contributor
miscwit

An excellent post filled with very accurate observations.

Women do indeed want to marry up. The dating websites show this every day.

So, if women raise themselves economically (which is not a bad thing by itself), they keep looking upward and find a decreasing number of men. Let’s face it, not every man is going to be a high-powered executive making almost 7 figures annually. So, women feel they must “settle” for any number of millions of perfectly nice fellows who make a reasonably good living and would like some respect and some love but lack the wallet power to satisfy the careerist, American women.

But that respect and love is not forthcoming because the upwardly mobile women harbor some bitterness. Actually, they harbor a lot of bitterness for the lack of rich, prince charmings who never materialized to sweep them off their feet. Their perfectly good husbands aren’t Brad Pitt or Donald Trump.

There’s another cultural vector that is involved. Those alpha men who have reached the level of success where careerist women pursue them have discovered that divorce laws are a tremendous disincentive to marry. As well, with so many available women, these wealthy fellows have another reason not to commit – there’s always a younger, slimmer, prettier one available. I will not comment on the often repellant personalities of alpha males because their financial success often leads women to attempt to overlook their character flaws.

Millions of perfectly nice, well-adjusted, reasonably-well paid men are ignored by two generations of American women still waiting for the perfectly-rich, perfectly-behaved prince charming to come along. They wait until they become bitter and acquire cats.

These nice, well-adjusted, and reasonably-paid men are selecting other lifestyle options. Some become players who cynically learn how to pick up women for easy sexual adventures. Others avoid relationships entirely and learn to accept their fate in life as committed bachelors. Finally, increasing numbers of those perfectly nice fellows look offshore for potential mates. It’s only a matter of time when the term “mail order bride” is replaced with the term “outsourced wife”.

Message Edited by miscwit on 08-28-2006 07:45 PM

08-28-2006 07:27 PM

Re: Are American men just fed up with women?
placidlake
Contributor
placidlake
Wonderful analysis.

08-28-2006 07:42 PM

Re: Are American men just fed up with women?
DontMarryNoer
Regular Contributor
DontMarryNoer

Not much substance, just some scatter-shot, anecdotal thoughts on something. I’m an American woman. I’ve never had a prbolem finding American men when I wanted them (even when I didn’t). Never knew any American woman who has.

08-28-2006 07:57 PM

Re: Are American men just fed up with women?
placidlake
Contributor
placidlake
If that is true, any opinion would be anecdotal by your standards.

Personal experience cannot speak for the masses.

08-28-2006 07:59 PM

Re: Are American men just fed up with women?
Romulus
Regular Contributor
Romulus
“I’m an American woman. I’ve never had a prbolem finding American men when I wanted them (even when I didn’t). Never knew any American woman who has.”

And I’ve had no problem finding women to date, have one night stands with, and even ones who wanted a firm committment. But in all these cases I had no desire to marry them whatsoever. Why should I? I can have the sex without the headaches. Until they find out I don’t want a commitment to which they lash out verbally and leave/forcibly removed. Then I go on to the next one and on and on it goes.

Message Edited by Romulus on 08-28-2006 08:31 PM

08-28-2006 08:26 PM

Re: Are American men just fed up with women?
Pelican
Regular Contributor
Pelican
All right, guys, pony up: I want to see these cat lady statistics. Because at the moment, there seems to be a commonly held belief that the single American woman is doomed to become the crazy animal hoarder down the lane. I know it’s a cultural reference, but if we’re cutting through the anecdotes, bring on the facts and figures.

08-28-2006 08:41 PM

Re: Are American men just fed up with women?
placidlake
Contributor
placidlake
Alright romulun, we know you can get Sex.

08-28-2006 08:51 PM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – Are American men just fed up with women?

Re: Are American men just fed up with women?
married
Regular Visitor
married
Pelican wrote:
> All right, guys, pony up: I want to see these cat lady statistics. Because at the moment, there seems to be a commonly held belief that the single American woman is doomed to become the crazy animal hoarder down the lane. I know it’s a cultural reference, but if we’re cutting through the anecdotes, bring on the facts and figures.
>

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/peo_one_per_hou-people-one-person-households

The US leads in one person households. I’m not surprised.

08-28-2006 09:10 PM

Re: Are American men just fed up with women?
MartianBachelor
Regular Contributor
MartianBachelor
miscwit, you’ll love this developement…

______________________________________________
“The loudest, most strident voices calling women weak, stupid, and incapable of competing in the world at large are the feminists.” – zed the zen priest

08-28-2006 09:45 PM

Re: Are American men just fed up with women?
MMXMMX
Visitor
MMXMMX

While I like the original post, lemme ask you something.  You seem to put a lot of thought into feminism, changing gender roles, and the like.  I’ve been pretty mch the same way for the last eight years.

Now, because of this, I’m sure you’ve heard women insult / blame men for a host of actions, all of which are serious, and all of which demand that men spend their lives sleeping on the couch to atone for.     From the replies to this article, though, women have unleashed an insult upon men the likes of which I have never seen!

*assumes nagging wife pose*  Men, you ought to be ashamed of yourselves!  How dare you use your brains to make choices!?

Yes, we’re horrible, because we might actually read an article and agree with it.  It’s bad enough we’re responsible for war; we’re now responsible for thinking and having opinions.

Now I’m not gonna tell you what makes a woman worthy of your love, but can we all agree that blaming you for thinking is a disqualifer?

So, men, since we’re all guilty of something, we might as well be guilty of the worst thing of all: enjoying ourselves as we see fit and making our own decisions to suit ourselves (women’s participation optional).  The women here certainly don’t seem to be loking out for our enjoyment, right?  Might as well do that for ourselves…

08-28-2006 10:23 PM

Re: Are American men just fed up with women?
Pelican
Regular Contributor
Pelican

married wrote:
Pelican wrote:
> All right, guys, pony up: I want to see these cat lady statistics. Because at the moment, there seems to be a commonly held belief that the single American woman is doomed to become the crazy animal hoarder down the lane. I know it’s a cultural reference, but if we’re cutting through the anecdotes, bring on the facts and figures.
>

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/peo_one_per_hou-people-one-person-households

The US leads in one person households. I’m not surprised.

But what about the CATS, man?! I want cat statistics! Mountains and mountains of cat statistics! And while we’re at it, single men with dogs.

08-29-2006 01:37 AM

Re: Are American men just fed up with women?
DontMarryNoer
Regular Contributor
DontMarryNoer

Romulus wrote:
“I’m an American woman. I’ve never had a prbolem finding American men when I wanted them (even when I didn’t). Never knew any American woman who has.”

And I’ve had no problem finding women to date, have one night stands with, and even ones who wanted a firm committment. But in all these cases I had no desire to marry them whatsoever. Why should I?

Message Edited by Romulus on 08-28-2006 08:31 PM

Erm, you shouldn’t if you don’t want to. I don’t either and make that clear. Feel free to tone it down a bit, methinks you doth protest too much.

08-29-2006 11:54 AM

Re: The Strike is On!
rjmck
Contributor
rjmck

It looks like the marriage strike is on– and not just against career women.  Seems like a good note with which to end this entire discussion.

ifeminists.com: A central gathering place and information center for individualist feminists. — explore the new feminism –
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ifeminists.com >introduction >editorials

The Marriage Strike
August 12, 2003
by Wendy McElroy, mac@ifeminists.net

Why do fewer people marry?

According to a 1999 National Vital Statistics Report from the CDC, 7.4 per 1,000 Americans married in 1998. From 1990 to 1995, the marriage rate dropped from 9.8 to 7.6. Different sources render other statistics but the trend remains sharply downward.

There is never a single or comprehensive explanation for complex phenomena that are rooted deeply in human psychology. Non-marriage is a particularly difficult issue to address because, as a recent paper from Rutgers University entitled “Why Men Won’t Commit” explains, official sources are scarce. “The federal government issues thousands of reports on nearly every dimension of American life. … But it provides no annual index or report on the state of marriage.” Much of the discussion of the motives surrounding non-marriage must be anecdotal, therefore, relying on statistics to provide framework and perspective.

In examining reasons for the current decline of marriage, one question usually receives short shrift. Why are men reluctant to marry?

The Rutgers report — admittedly based on a small sample — found ten prevalent reasons. The first three:

* They can get sex without marriage;

* They can enjoy “a wife” through cohabitation; and,

* They want to avoid divorce and its financial risks.

As a critic of anti-male bias in the family courts, the reasons I hear most frequently from non-marrying men are fear of financial devastation in divorce and of losing meaningful contact with children afterward. (Such feedback is anecdotal evidence but, when you hear the same response over a period of years from several hundred different sources, it becomes prudent to listen.)

In a similar vein, the Rutgers report finds: “Many men also fear the financial consequences of divorce. They say that their financial assets are better protected if they cohabit rather than marry. They fear that an ex-wife will ‘take you for all you’ve got’ and that ‘men have more to lose financially than women’ from a divorce.”

Increasingly, men are stating their reasons for not marrying on the Internet. In an article entitled “The Marriage Strike,” Matthew Weeks expresses a sentiment common to such sites, “If we accept the old feminist argument that marriage is slavery for women, then it is undeniable that — given the current state of the nation’s family courts — divorce is slavery for men.”

Weeks provides the math. One in two marriages will fail with the wife being twice as likely to initiate the proceedings on grounds of “general discontent” — the minimum requirement of no-fault divorce. The odds of the woman receiving custody of children are overwhelming, with many fathers effectively being denied visitation. The wife usually keeps the “family” assets and, perhaps, receives alimony as well as child support. Many men confront continuing poverty to pay for the former marriage.

Weeks concludes: “Over five million divorced men in America are currently experiencing the situation I just outlined. Without a doubt, their stories and experiences are heard by unmarried men. Can anyone truly blame the men for having apprehension?”

He uses what has become a new term — at least in the mouths of men: “the marriage strike.” Most of the men who go “on strike” undoubtedly do so quietly but others are making a loud political statement. For example, the Joint Parenting Association declares, “An international ‘marriage strike’ by men is set to continue indefinitely until Family Law is reformed to recognize that fathers love their children too.”

The apprehension of men — along with other significant factors — is dramatically changing the face of marriage and the family. The best statistics we have indicate that, from 1960 to 2000:

* The number of marriages per 1,000 unmarried women age 15-plus has declined from 73.5 to 46.5.

* The number of divorces per 1,000 married women age 15-plus has risen from 9.2 to 18.9.

One impact: The presence of single women has increased remarkably — women who must choose either to remain childless or to raise children by themselves.

* The number of births per 1,000 women age 15-44 has declined from 118.0 to 67.5.

* The percentage of live births to unmarried women rose from 5.3 to 33.2.

* The percentage of children under 18 living with a single parent rose from 9 to 27.

Some point to the steep rise in cohabitation as causing the devastation of marriage and families. The number of unmarried adults cohabiting with the opposite sex has soared from 439,000 in 1960 to 4,736,000 in 2000. But blaming cohabitation misses the point. Why do people choose that alternative?

A significant number of men are loudly stating their reasons: anti-male bias in the current marriage law and in the family courts. Solving this piece of the “marriage crisis” is not difficult. Allow people to draw up their own private marriage contracts, without government law acting as a third party; have unbiased family courts adjudicate breaches of contracts.

If men participated equally in forging the terms of the most important commitment in their lives, perhaps they would cease to view marriage as a form of indentured servitude and divorce as slavery.

Wendy McElroy Home Page

more editorials

ifeminists.com >home | introduction | interaction | information | about

ifeminists.com is edited by Wendy McElroy; it is made possible by support from The Independent Institute and members like you.

08-29-2006 04:42 PM

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