Don’t Call Me “Cupcake”


Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – Don’t Call Me “Cupcake”

Don’t Call Me “Cupcake”
EnglishProf
Contributor
EnglishProf

Are any other women sick and tired of the men on this forum addressing them as “cupcake”?  If I had a nickle for every time a man has used the word in the past few days, I might be able to invest in one of MoneyNeverSleeps’ stocks . . . on the other hand . . . maybe not.

The last time I saw a man address a woman as such was about fifteen years ago–in the pages of a trashy romance novel.  He was the sexist **bleep**, by the way.

Guys, please address the women on this forum by their monikers.

08-29-2006 03:41 PM

Re: Don’t Call Me “Cupcake”
porkchops38
Regular Contributor
porkchops38

EnglishProf wrote:
Are any other women sick and tired of the men on this forum addressing them as “cupcake”?  If I had a nickle for every time a man has used the word in the past few days, I might be able to invest in one of MoneyNeverSleeps’ stocks . . . on the other hand . . . maybe not.

The last time I saw a man address a woman as such was about fifteen years ago–in the pages of a trashy romance novel.  He was the sexist **bleep**, by the way.

Guys, please address the women on this forum by their monikers.

Do you cupcakes ever tire of telling men what they should do?

08-29-2006 03:47 PM

Re: Don’t Call Me “Cupcake”
Democles
Regular Contributor
Democles

Ok Cupcake!

Listen Babe, do me a favor and fetch me a beer, ok, Hon. Good Girl.

08-29-2006 03:47 PM

Re: Don’t Call Me “Cupcake”
MartianBachelor
Regular Contributor
MartianBachelor
*** Off-topic ***

Hey, EnglishProf, we were looking for you last night…

Which 19th century novelist said or wrote “when you buy fish, it’s men’s lives you buy”?

______________________________________________
“The loudest, most strident voices calling women weak, stupid, and incapable of competing in the world at large are the feminists.” – zed the zen priest

08-29-2006 03:48 PM

Re: Don’t Call Me “Cupcake”
rjmck
Contributor
rjmck

Sorry guys, but I’ve got to go with the English Prof on this one. You want respect from women? Treat them and their opinions with respect as well. The female ego, contrary to feminist propaganda, is just as fragile as the male, as English Prof’s post demonstrates. Maybe if we could get past the self-serving rhetoric, sexist put-downs and gender stereotyping, we could make some progress in discussing this issue, on which everyone has a vested interest and a vulnerability. On ethical grounds, we can’t expect feminist sexists to clean up their act until we do as well. The “cupcake” crap began as a humorous, almost affectionate term a while ago, and is degenerating into the equivalent of the feminist “male chauvanist pig” sexist nonsense. Knock it off.

08-29-2006 03:57 PM

Re: Don’t Call Me “Cupcake”
fishmonger
Contributor
fishmonger

Ok Cupcake!

08-29-2006 04:07 PM

Re: Don’t Call Me “Cupcake”
Termi0n
Regular Contributor
Termi0n

“Knock it off.”

Sure thing sugar britches.

Women want fried ice. -Arab Proverb

08-29-2006 04:08 PM

Re: Don’t Call Me “Cupcake”
EnglishProf
Contributor
EnglishProf

Sir Walter Scott

By the way, Scott writes some wonderfully strong, feminine characters into his novels.  Like Jeannie Deans in “The Heart of Midlothian.”  Then there is Flora MacDonald in “Waverly,” and Lilias Redgauntlet in “Redgauntlet.”

BTW, what is the revelance of “when you buy fish, it’s men’s lives you buy” (quote minus Scottish dialect)?  Scott seems to be critical of the growth of commercial fishing industries and how they have pushed out local markets.  He was one of those 19th century writers and landowners who were critical of industrialization and its influence on local economy and society.  He saw a Utopia in the past and, as the creator of the Highland Society of Scotland was instrumental in creating a separate identity for Scotland in the 19th century (he extolled the old legends, was one of the first to make the clan tartan and bagpipes acceptable, etc.).

Perhaps you are seeing Scott as a kind of model/metaphor for the traditional male who longs for the “good ole days”?  Just curious . . .

And, yes, I did write my dissertation on this stuff.

08-29-2006 04:10 PM

Re: Don’t Call Me “Cupcake”
juliandroms
Regular Contributor
juliandroms
>
> Are any other women sick and tired of the men
> on this forum addressing them as “cupcake”
>

Uh… you should go back and look at those posts. I kid you not, there was a woman posting on this forum using the nickname “Cupcake.”

I prefaced at least three different posts to a person named “Cupcake” not because I was being patronizing, but because, quite literally, her name was cupcake.

Sorry to dissappoint you, but that’s what it was.

08-29-2006 04:10 PM

Re: Don’t Call Me “Cupcake”
EnglishProf
Contributor
EnglishProf

juliandroms,

okay, fair enough . . . but there were other men using the phrase–and it was used on me multiple times.

08-29-2006 04:12 PM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – Don’t Call Me “Cupcake”

Re: Don’t Call Me “Cupcake”
juliandroms
Regular Contributor
juliandroms
In case you all don’t believe me, here she is:

http://forums.forbes.com/forbes/board/message?board.id=respond_marry_career_woman&message.id=4258

http://forums.forbes.com/forbes/view_profile?user.id=7467

08-29-2006 04:13 PM

Re: Don’t Call Me “Cupcake”
Hedgie
Regular Contributor
Hedgie

“Are any other women sick and tired of the men on this forum addressing them as “cupcake”?”

That’s nothing. You should hear what we call you behind your back.

I prefer “muffin,” myself. What do you think, sweetheart?

08-29-2006 04:20 PM

Re: Don’t Call Me “Cupcake”
MartianBachelor
Regular Contributor
MartianBachelor

EnglishProf wrote: Sir Walter Scott

10-4 and thanks!

Perhaps you are seeing Scott as a kind of model/metaphor for the traditional male who longs for the “good ole days”? Just curious . . .

Negatory. I’ve had the quote around a long time but didn’t know who exactly to attribute it to. It came up in the context of the male death professions (like fishing, mining, timbering), the unappreciated sacrifices men make to support women and their families, etc.

______________________________________________
“The loudest, most strident voices calling women weak, stupid, and incapable of competing in the world at large are the feminists.” – zed the zen priest

08-29-2006 04:24 PM

Re: Don’t Call Me “Cupcake”
EnglishProf
Contributor
EnglishProf

Here’s a book for you:  Neil Gunn’s “The Silver Darlings.”  It was written in the 1930s, I believe, but it is about the new herring fisheries established along Scotland’s northern coast in the late 18th/early 19th centuries.  Gunn does present fishing as a ‘male death profession.”  Most of the story is seen through the eyes of a very traditional female protagonist, and it is about her and her son confronting life without a man (he has been killed on the seas).

Women had to be smart and resourceful back then too, especially as many were left widows through war, disease, dangerous professions, etc.  Of course, widowed women couldn’t work (unless they were of the lower classes, and then they were forced into factory labor), so they became a drain on their extended families or on the emerging social welfare system.

08-29-2006 04:41 PM

Re: Don’t Call Me “Cupcake”
mun13f
Visitor
mun13f
EnglishProf –

Are you married? If so, I am curious how you managed to reconcile your career with your husband’s (if he has one), given the vagaries of academe.

Unfortunately, I know these vagaries first hand, as I married an academic historian myself. I can safely say that her career, more than any other thing, has brought me more grief and anxiety over the past few years. Of course, I really have no one to blame but myself, because we identified the irreconcileable nature of our respective careers early on in our relationship, yet stuck with the relationship. Eventually, shortly after we married, I gave up a career that was tremendously satisfying, because I just couldn’t square her having to give up eight years of sweat and toil in graduate school to follow my career. However, now we are left with a problem — she might not actually be able to land a tenured job, or if she does, it will likely be after several years of moving every 1-2 years for visiting professorships, for 40K in pay if we’re lucky. Likely, most of the places we’d move to would be out of the way locales where it would be difficult for me to find work (I not just guessing here — that was exactly my experience during her first visiting position). She would have to be a full professor (at least 10-15 years down the road, if at all) before she will be paid similarly to what I used to make. Also, when do we have kids? If she lands a tenure track position, she will have to bust ass to make tenure, so that means daycare for the kids or becoming a stay at home dad, which would mean subsisting on her meagre income as an assistant professor.

08-29-2006 04:46 PM

Re: Don’t Call Me “Cupcake”
EnglishProf
Contributor
EnglishProf

Mun13f,

Yes, I’m married, and I decided not to pursue a tenure-track position in my field for the very reasons you mention.  Academia is brutal in this regard.  I married a man who is currently pursuing his graduate degree, and we have decided to follow his career.  I am a little burned out on academia and enjoy doing a lot of things–so I have discovered that I love the “business” and administrative side of academia better than teaching.  I can do those things anywhere.  But, yes, there are financial sacrifices, we don’t know where we will be moving in a few years, etc.  But I want him to be happy and he absolutely loves teaching and research–so I’m willing to follow.  It’s not an easy life.  But you know, I dated doctors and lawyers and bankers, and I just didn’t get that world or the expectations of me as a woman.  My husband is my best friend, and we do our best to support each other’s work.

That said, the divorce rate in academia is sky-high.  In fact, if you want to discuss this more, check out the Forum on the Website for the Chronicle of Higher Education:  http://www.chronicle.edu.  Try the “Balancing Life and Work”  forum.  Unfortunately, a lot of academics have lost perspective–the stress is so high for such low stakes.

We haven’t negotiated the kids thing yet–but we have some ideas.  Luckily college towns are normally very supportive with regards to this kind of thing.

Good luck!  If I think of anything, I will let you know more.

08-29-2006 05:03 PM

Re: Don’t Call Me “Cupcake”
porkchops38
Regular Contributor
porkchops38
“That said, the divorce rate in academia is sky-high.”

I wasn’t aware that the divorce rate in academia is “sky-high”, what’s up with that? Are all those feminazi theories of marriage in academia just not applicable out in the “real world”????

08-29-2006 05:39 PM

Re: Don’t Call Me “Cupcake”
juliandroms
Regular Contributor
juliandroms
You’d think with all their “progressive” policies & rhetoric, such as available daycare, more flexible hours, benefits for same-sex partners, blah blah the divorce rate would be low.

Oh well I guess that blows that theory.

08-29-2006 05:48 PM

Re: Don’t Call Me “Cupcake”
khankrumthebulg
Regular Contributor
khankrumthebulg
Dear Professor,

I hope that your Marriage works for you and your Husband. The Ad Homeinem attacks by the “Strong Independent Women” here amount to sour Grapes on their part. It smacks of insults not addressing the core issues. When Feminism Liberated Women it failed to Liberate Men in the Ways Feminists and Women invisioned it would. Instead it lead to a perpetual Victimhood and get even Mentality that persists to this day.

As to the Patriarchy. It may have existed in a 1% or Less of the Male Populace. Most Men are wage Slaves, working hard to make for themselves a better life. Men have not been extended the privledges of Feminism. Instead we have been stuck with the Hatred of a primarily Lesbian Lead hate movement and its financial costs. It is not equitable. Any relationship or contract must benefit both parties if is sustainable. The current Marriage contract is not anymore for Men. More and More Men see this reality and are opting out.

All of the insults, attacks on characters, propaganda, Media content will not change reality. Men Love Women, want children, and a Family and want a reasonable life. We are not offerred this here at present. Until that happens and Laws and Women work for balance and equity for both genders this will not improve.

08-29-2006 05:51 PM

Re: Don’t Call Me “Cupcake”
toadman
Regular Contributor
toadman

“You’d think with all their “progressive” policies & rhetoric, such as available corp on-daycare, more flexible hours, benefits for same-sex partners, blah blah the divorce rate would be low. Oh well I guess that blows that theory.”

If I had those bennies I’d be giddy but it’s never enough. Give an inch and take a mile. Reel out the rope and let them hang themselves.  Oops, sorry that was too extreme, I meant cat-ownership.

08-29-2006 06:37 PM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – Don’t Call Me “Cupcake”

Re: Don’t Call Me “Cupcake”
mun13f
Visitor
mun13f
EnglishProf –
Sorry I did not get back to you earlier, but I had to go for the making and eating of the dinner.
Thanks for your input. You really hit it on the head here: “a lot of academics have lost perspective–the stress is so high for such low stakes.” One of my old English profs did much the same as you — go into administration. She taught several courses, but her primary job was with the College of Business. She managed to publish a well-received work on Salman Rushdie, and now works for the state government, though I think she still adjunct teaches at a local community college.

I think that the only thing that will really solve the academic job problem is if no one enters into academe for about a decade so that supply can re-align with demand. I was actually reading a bunch of first-person stories on Chronicle of Higher Education website recently, and not surprisingly, many of them bemoaned the job market, while a few were about success in finding a tenure track job, written with equal parts amazement and relief, I think. The most depressing was written about a guy who had been on the market for seven years before walking away entirely.

I kind of actually wish my wife was a lawyer, at least in terms of how it would affect our family life. The pay is much better, you have much more control over where you will live, and unlike academe, you can actually put your career on pause and come back to it. Sure, you’ll never make partner at a law firm (if that is your goal), but there are, I think, many more ways for a lawyer to be successful than for an academic (pretty much tenure or bust). Academe, in my view, is a terrible career for a youngish woman who wants to have a family.

Anyways, I wish you and your husband well. It seems both you and I have realized that “having it all” is, especially in our situation, a chimera.

Will O’ Wisp –

No, low income and no job stability would not have been problems with my career path. However, if I had not given up my career so she could pursue hers, my wife would have spent eight years of her life and tens of thousands in student loans on something that would have amounted to the world’s worst finishing school. I can totally understand where she is/was coming from in not wanting to waste her education. Unfortunately, in her field the acme of success, a tenure track job, is so narrowly defined and hard to come by. Miss the boat on that, and if you stay in academe, you’re consigned to the interminable fate of a lifelong adjunct professor.
What I am driving it is that in our relationship, when it came to careers, there was a zero-sum dynamic at work. If we want the kind of family life that we think our children deserve, one of us would have to sacrifice. Make no mistake that this is a major conflict, and one which both of us would have avoided had we each married someone who was content to be a homemaker.

08-29-2006 06:59 PM

Re: Don’t Call Me “Cupcake”
C2shiningC
Contributor
C2shiningC

cupcake! cupcake! cupcake!

08-29-2006 10:51 PM

Re: Don’t Call Me “Cupcake”
sunhawk
Regular Contributor
sunhawk
hey, as long as they don’t use “sugar **bleep**”

08-29-2006 11:55 PM

Re: Don’t Call Me “Cupcake”
sunhawk
Regular Contributor
sunhawk
LOL censoring the poor woodland birds! i said “sugar t-i-t-s”

08-29-2006 11:56 PM

Re: Don’t Call Me “Cupcake”
EnglishProf
Contributor
EnglishProf

mun13f,

Good luck with everything!  I realized last night that I had posted the wrong Website address.  It is http://www.chronicle.com (not .edu).  But is sounds like you have found the site before.

I think that the best thing the academy could do is to encourage new Ph.D.s to find viable work outside, in government, business, non-profit, etc.  I absolutely refuse to adjunct.  Okay–I teach on average 1-2 courses per semester in addition to my 40-hour week job just for the extra money (student loans, you know).  But adjuncting full-time is just slave labor.  I have actually become very cynical about the academy and am looking for things right now in marketing, professional writing, etc.  But it is hard to change my mind-set.  When you spend 11 years in school and then five years in an academic setting as instructor or administrator, it is difficult to get out there and see how your skills translate.  But there are some great books on that.  I have worked in the corporate sector and I enjoyed the regular work hours and the perks–although my stress level was much higher.

Academia is one field where women can navigate family life quite well.  Even women without tenure can often negotiate teaching times, office hours, etc.  And research/writing can be done at home while a baby is sleeping.  I have several friends who wrote their dissertations while pregnant and post-natal.  But what this means is that a woman will not be a “super-star” in her field, at least while in her 30s.  And she is more likely to find a situation that works for her at a community college or small, second-tier liberal arts college (not a “research one” institution or prestigious college).

I don’t know what we would do right now if I desperately wanted a tenure-track position and my husband wanted the same.  That would be difficult.  I know couples who live in different towns and states from each other as they navigate their careers.  This is just not an option for me.  The bottom line is:  when one person in the relationship has an academic career, then the other person will have to compromise and adapt.  That is the hard core reality.  The spouse of the academic has to reconcile himself/herself to the possibilities of living in an unexpected place, dealing with the emotional ups and downs of tenure, living frugally while his/her partner builds a career.  I guess I am lucky that I have been able to adapt–and, believe me, before we were married we did a lot of talking about these issues.  But I had my fun in my 20s and early 30s.  I traveled, lived abroad. got my degrees and work experience.  Now I am looking to settle down into family life, potentially do more from home when kids come along.  I lived in NYC and London, and I ate in the fancy restaurants, and went to the opera, and dated rich men.  It just got old after a while and I wanted a different lifestyle.  I wanted to live in a more rural environment and get more involved in a small community.  Now, I’d rather cook a meal at home from organic ingredients than go to a fancy restaurant.  I like being able to wear L.L. Bean or Kohl’s to work instead of Ann Taylor.  No one in my town lathers on the make-up or spends hundreds of dollars on hair cuts and coloring.

The point is:  there are different stages in life, and people adapt accordingly.  The challenge of the academic (or any professional) is to constantly assess and change.  Yes–academia is a very interesting and often annoying thing!

Well, good luck!

08-30-2006 09:16 AM

Re: Don’t Call Me “Cupcake”
Halladay
Regular Contributor
Halladay
ok Poundcake .. i won’t call you cupcake

08-31-2006 12:38 AM

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