Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?


Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?

Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?
vegasmike
Contributor
vegasmike
I can’t understand why women are getting so upset with this article. It is just examines statistical trends about social and economical aspects of gender equality.

The article is just informative to the reader. Men AND Women should have all the statistical knowledge facing the institution marriage today. Women need to realize and accept without getting to emotional to think clearly that all studies are generalizations and do not apply to everybody and like every rule exceptions are recognized.

I know that if there was a (HYPOTHETICAL) article that career men were more likely to divorce, cheat, abuse, etc. you would not see so many angry men spewing all this hate that women are.

Next, the cheating thing, yes in today society women are more exposed to the opportunity. Opportunity usually leads to breaking the rules. Men and Women are not biologically hardwired to be monogamous so why should they be?

Men, we are all adults and humans we don’t need women to clean for us. If we really can’t cook or clean, hire a maid don’t get married to enslave a women. Besides, a maid would be cheaper anyway.

Women, go to college, get a good job, support yourself. You don’t need men for that. Women are 100% capable of supporting and caring for themselves.

Finally, the word is out, marriage truly is a failed social experiment. Why should people have to be married, it seems there is no real benefit to women or men?

08-24-2006 01:53 PM

Re: Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?
grrlpower
Contributor
grrlpower

women are angry with this article because its not informative, its wholly biased. the fact is, if the title of this article was ‘don’t marry a black person’ or ‘don’t marry an asian that has technology skills’ there would be a HUGE issue.

the fact is – this article basically tells women that you have to choose between a career and a husband. BUT THAT IS NEVER THE CASE FOR MEN.

what if someone wrote an article entitled “ladies: don’t marry a career man”??

that would never happen.

your inane comment for ‘women to support themselves and they don’t need a man’ makes no sense. the point is – women are being PUNISHED for being successful. career women are to be ‘avoided’ – at all costs because god forbid a man actually has to clean his own **bleep** house.

give me a break already

08-24-2006 02:02 PM

Re: Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?
Termi0n
Regular Contributor
Termi0n
Marriage is not a failed social experiment. Its been going on for thousands of years. Feminism and the resulting independent, wannabe-male, bitch princess’ with no sense of womanly duty are what ruined it.

grrlpower wrote:

the fact is – this article basically tells women that you have to choose between a career and a husband. BUT THAT IS NEVER THE CASE FOR MEN.

Because men handle it. Women obviously cannot.

Message Edited by Termi0n on 08-24-2006 02:06 PM

Women want fried ice. -Arab Proverb

08-24-2006 02:02 PM

Re: Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?
katiebelle
Contributor
katiebelle
until you lived in those times and actually knew what went on in those marriages that have been so successful i dont think you can talk. you have no idea if those people were happy. divorce was outlawed and people stoned for it. is it a coincidence it didnt happen much you idiot.

its a failed social experience when 70% of people cheat on their wives and husbands. the only thing that was different before is that it was only men doing the cheating. you really just have no clue its almost sad. i dont know if you are married, but i feel bad for your wife. is she also chained to the stove as we speak getting dinner ready?

08-24-2006 02:06 PM

Re: Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?
vegasmike
Contributor
vegasmike

Women are not being punished, men are being presented fact of studies. A person has the right to examine all of the information before making a decision.

If a man chooses not to marry a career woman that is his choice. A career woman may not be what he is looking for. He may like blondes, fat chicks, dumb chicks, homemakers etc. Bottom line he has a choice, if he is not willing to marry a career woman he has every right to be picky.

Women don’t marry men for many reason, he is ugly, not successful, doesn’t want kids etc. Women have the right to choose also. It is a free country.

So much anger, life is to short to be so upset over an article!

08-24-2006 02:09 PM

Re: Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?
Termi0n
Regular Contributor
Termi0n

katiebelle wrote:
until you lived in those times and actually knew what went on in those marriages that have been so successful i dont think you can talk. you have no idea if those people were happy. divorce was outlawed and people stoned for it. is it a coincidence it didnt happen much you idiot.

its a failed social experience when 70% of people cheat on their wives and husbands. the only thing that was different before is that it was only men doing the cheating. you really just have no clue its almost sad. i dont know if you are married, but i feel bad for your wife. is she also chained to the stove as we speak getting dinner ready?

I’m talking about before feminism in America. Did we stone people in the 40’s and 50’s? I dont think so genious. Perhaps we should reinstate the stoning law though. That might make those evil career women think twice.

Women want fried ice. -Arab Proverb

08-24-2006 02:15 PM

Re: Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?
katiebelle
Contributor
katiebelle
i am not sure what you dont understand about the idea that women CANT leave if they had nothing to support themselves with. like in the 40’s and 50’s. they wont leave their husbands if they have no way of living afterwards. and men were cheating just as much then as well. do you think THAT is ok? that men cheat and their wives stay at home and dont divorce them? you havent intelligently responded to any of these things so i basically just think you arent smart enough to. honestly, i hope you arent a career “man” yourself bc your powers of deduction and analysis are beyond reprehensible. or maybe you are and thats why the economy sucks so bad.

08-24-2006 02:20 PM

Re: Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?
wildcat_jls
Newbie
wildcat_jls

I’m a “career woman” and I think many people reading this article are overreacting. I have to laugh that someone could piece together different research studies and come to this conclusion. Beyond it being entertaining, it may make people think.

Whether you agree with it or not, it’s opinion. He has just as much right to express his as I do mine. Freedom of speech is a beautiful thing. If you don’t like it, don’t read it.

Use that energy to get mad about things that matter, not some random guy’s opinion . . .

08-24-2006 02:21 PM

Re: Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?
IshWishDish
Regular Contributor
IshWishDish

I actually like a lot of this post, but then there’s this:

I know that if there was a (HYPOTHETICAL) article that career men were more likely to divorce, cheat, abuse, etc. you would not see so many angry men spewing all this hate that women are.
How exactly do you know that? This article was about career women being bad investments, basically, and the rebuttal article was about women maybe not being the source of the problem, and there are angry men coming out of the woodwork right here on this board. Interestingly, it seems to me that the angry women are attacking the article, while the angry men are attacking the angry women. And most of the other women, for that matter.

Also, I’ve more or less given up trying to use reason to explain these concepts to people, but you don’t seem like an idiot, so I’ll give it a shot: For many of us, the infuriating thing here is not really that Noer is pointing out instability in the marriages of women with competitive careers. It’s that he talks about wives as if they were acquisitions rather than partners in a very personal relationship. This strikes a raw nerve with those of us who have learned through experience the inevitable results of allowing ourselves to be viewed as objects rather than individuals. I understand your stance on marriage, but I’m sure you can agree that this flawed institution is certainly not improved by approaching it as if one is shopping for a reliable family car.

08-24-2006 02:22 PM

Re: Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?
grrlpower
Contributor
grrlpower

to terminOn:

WOMEN

08-24-2006 02:24 PM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?

Re: Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?
bekis
Contributor
bekis

Actually, to a certain extent I agree with the first post…

Women do not need men, men do not need women; we are responsible adults (for the most part) who are capable of taking care of ourselves. I agree marriage is a failed institution due to its inflexibility and the exclusionary federal regulations governing the defintition of marriage.

But he asked why people were bothered by this article

That is a wholly different matter…

Basically I personally was upset at the extreme bias of the article, the lack of proper citation (which would allow me to look at the source information myself and determine my own conclusions), and the implication that women are the root of all evil and the poor men in any of the given situations should be sanctified for their matyrdom

I am glad the author mentions the difficult issue of correlation versus causality, however, he fails to link this problem to most of his “findings”, along with other problems inherent in statiscal data.

And the rebuttal was sadly lacking, she squandered a perfectly good opportunity to present opposing evidence to her colleagues broad generalizations.

I am a true believer in a free exchange of ideas, and this author certainly put forth his ideas, but a free exchange requires just that, an exchange….where is the presentation of opposing evidence? and why when some people attempt to put forth other ideas on this forum do people get upset, name call, and accuse censorship…

If you have opinions and and want to share them, then you should accept that other people will do the same. I only wish the ideas presented were of some intellectual integrity rather than the name calling, insults and sarcastic comments that are also bandied about on the grammar school playgrounds. it would be so nice to participate in a frank discussion in a marketplace place of ideas. Dodging the slings and arrows of a bitter generation of professionals is not my idea of enlightenment.

08-24-2006 02:24 PM

Re: Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?
grrlpower
Contributor
grrlpower

TO TERMINON

WOMEN CAN’T HANDLE WORK AND FAMILY BECAUSE WE ARE NOT GETTING ANY SUPPORT FROM MEN LIKE YOU, YOU TOOL

08-24-2006 02:24 PM

Re: Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?
Reader
Contributor
Reader
Because, Mr. Vegas, a career and a woman working gives her POWER–the ability to leave a marriage that’s unsatisfying, to educate herself if she wants to, to have kids on her own if she isn’t able to find a man that doesn’t have a rock for a head–saying a woman who has a career makes an undesirable partner–it’s reverting back to the archaic notion of marriage which is a woman being submissive, giving up her power, for her man. Sure, a woman can choose what she wants in a man–but his attributes, his ability to earn money, his POWER, is never seen as a negative as it is with women…comprendo? Someone would never say, “oooh, steer clear from that man with a job…baaaad…” it would be one thing if the traits that are seen as positives in a man and negative in a woman didn’t involve power and politics, but they do.

08-24-2006 02:26 PM

Re: Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?
Termi0n
Regular Contributor
Termi0n

grrlpower wrote:
TO TERMINON

WOMEN CAN’T HANDLE WORK AND FAMILY BECAUSE WE ARE NOT GETTING ANY SUPPORT FROM MEN LIKE YOU, YOU TOOL

I thought you were all strong independent womyn who didnt need us men? Make up your minds.

Message Edited by Termi0n on 08-24-2006 02:49 PM

Women want fried ice. -Arab Proverb

08-24-2006 02:48 PM

Re: Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?
ehm
Contributor
ehm

Honestly, all I can take from this article and the ensuing arguments here — is how frightening it is that there are men out there who still think like this, and find it okay to project “publicly.” Do you normally share this viewpoint in public? Have you never encountered a woman who told you you were a complete neanderthal?

These stats are total BS if you’re both good people and hold marriage and family as important as it should be held. I’m happy to know I’m loved and respected for my education and the efforts I’ve put into it and my career. I would never, ever, ever consider a life with someone a man who didn’t feel that way. So good luck boys, I’m sure you’re gonna wrangle a winner!

08-24-2006 02:59 PM

Re: Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?
Termi0n
Regular Contributor
Termi0n

ehm wrote:
Honestly, all I can take from this article and the ensuing arguments here — is how frightening it is that there are men out there who still think like this, and find it okay to project “publicly.” Do you normally share this viewpoint in public? Have you never encountered a woman who told you you were a complete neanderthal?

These stats are total BS if you’re both good people and hold marriage and family as important as it should be held. I’m happy to know I’m loved and respected for my education and the efforts I’ve put into it and my career. I would never, ever, ever consider a life with someone a man who didn’t feel that way. So good luck boys, I’m sure you’re gonna wrangle a winner!

LOL. Scared huh? Maybe you should go back in the kitchen where you wont have to hear opinions that scare you. So much for being a strong female. And yes I feel I have a right to say what I believe anywhere I want because in this country we have something called FREE SPEECH. Something you feminazi’s seem to have a huge problem with.

“I am woman hear me roar!” I hear ya, and it sounds like, “Waaaahhhhhhhhh!”

Message Edited by Termi0n on 08-24-2006 03:09 PM

Women want fried ice. -Arab Proverb

08-24-2006 03:08 PM

Re: Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?
paully
Contributor
paully

Bekis:

“If a host of studies are to be believed, marrying these women is asking for trouble. If they quit their jobs and stay home with the kids, they will be unhappy (Journal of Marriage and Family, 2003). They will be unhappy if they make more money than you do (Social Forces, 2006). You will be unhappy if they make more money than you do (Journal of Marriage and Family, 2001). You will be more likely to fall ill (American Journal of Sociology). Even your house will be dirtier (Institute for Social Research). ” – Quote from the article.

I see sources sited. Maybe you were reading the wrong article.

In face he prefaces his conclusions with “If a host of studies are to be believed” !!

ehm:
I don’t see why someone can come to the conclusion with the stats as being BS
Is it so hard to believe that working women are more likely to cheat, if that is the case and the stats are true why is it “frightening” that men take this data and make decisions based on it. Stats don’t make an assumption about everyone, it’s taking data out of a pool of people. It’s not judging you personally.

This article doesn’t say that there is anything wrong with a career woman, it saying that a career woman and marriage generally dont mix well. If you want to play against the odds, go for it. In fact, i will go so far as to say that career men and marriage dont mix. marriage seems to stagnate couples. which is why i believe that no one should get married until they’ve reached their goals.

08-24-2006 03:16 PM

Re: Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?
bekis
Contributor
bekis

I am not saying he didn’t cite sources, I am just saying he didn’t do a complete job….can you tell from the year and Journal title what article, or authors he was referring to? If you can, can you send me the journal article? I would truly like to read it. Thanks.

08-24-2006 03:25 PM

Re: Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?
ehm
Contributor
ehm

Wow. Glad you interpreted that so literally. That’s definitely how I meant it. How are you with sarcasm? Ooh – and the “LOL”… very mature. So articulate of you. And the name-calling! I’m floored!

For anyone to suggest women are not equal to men is so ridiculous it’s not even worth arguing.

What I suggested is indisputable — if you want a woman without a career, that’s exactly what you’re entitled to. You’d never get a woman like me (or the dozens of others responding to this article) — and that seems fine to you, so I’m not really sure where “our” argument is here.

So back off, go back to your 8th grade grammar text book, and be happy with your wife that’ll cook you your dinner and shut up about anything you do wrong.

Funny thing here is that with the money I make and exposure to different cultures, cuisines, etc. — I’d place money I can cook ten times better than she would.

08-24-2006 03:37 PM

Re: Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?
ehm
Contributor
ehm

Just to be clear to Paully — I didn’t dispute the facts, I said that good people can overcome them. I believe that these “facts” are just as true of men — which is why the article is inappropriately skewed. (But thank you for playing nice and at least being smart about it. Really — not being sarcastic.)

08-24-2006 03:39 PM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?

Re: Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?
Dee
Newbie
Dee

Is it really an examination of social trends when it applies to the trends associated with successful women? These ” statistics” are only half the story, where are the statistics associated with successful men? What about quality of life from the woman’s standpoint?

08-24-2006 03:47 PM

Re: Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?
Termi0n
Regular Contributor
Termi0n

ehm wrote:
Wow. Glad you interpreted that so literally. That’s definitely how I meant it. How are you with sarcasm? Ooh – and the “LOL”… very mature. So articulate of you. And the name-calling! I’m floored!

For anyone to suggest women are not equal to men is so ridiculous it’s not even worth arguing.

What I suggested is indisputable — if you want a woman without a career, that’s exactly what you’re entitled to. You’d never get a woman like me (or the dozens of others responding to this article) — and that seems fine to you, so I’m not really sure where “our” argument is here.

So back off, go back to your 8th grade grammar text book, and be happy with your wife that’ll cook you your dinner and shut up about anything you do wrong.

Funny thing here is that with the money I make and exposure to different cultures, cuisines, etc. — I’d place money I can cook ten times better than she would.

LOL. Look at the ego on this one. You think your soooo special. Get off your high horse. No one cares.

Women want fried ice. -Arab Proverb

08-24-2006 04:41 PM

Re: Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?
ehm
Contributor
ehm

My high horse? You just used the term “femi-nazi” towards someone you’ve read a few sentences from, and I’m the one on the horse?

You can’t even spell “genius” correctly.

Oh, and it’s “you’re”… not “your.”

And no one cares? Seems a message board full of people care quite a bit. How ’bout you go slather the crazy talk on someone else? Thanks! You’re a doll!

08-24-2006 04:50 PM

Re: Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?
vegasmike
Contributor
vegasmike

IshWishDish Wrote:
Also, I’ve more or less given up trying to use reason to explain these concepts to people, but you don’t seem like an idiot, so I’ll give it a shot: For many of us, the infuriating thing here is not really that Noer is pointing out instability in the marriages of women with competitive careers. It’s that he talks about wives as if they were acquisitions rather than partners in a very personal relationship. This strikes a raw nerve with those of us who have learned through experience the inevitable results of allowing ourselves to be viewed as objects rather than individuals. I understand your stance on marriage, but I’m sure you can agree that this flawed institution is certainly not improved by approaching it as if one is shopping for a reliable family car.

Ish, I respect your answer. I think you may be on to something, however It is hard for me to believe in Romance when I see the complete vengeance men and women assault each other with in divorce proceedings.

Divorcing couples badmouth and attack each other so viciously that it is hard to imagine love and romance existed.

I fully believe that marriage is historically a business partnership. Men gave women food, shelter, etc. And women took care of the kids, house, sex etc.

However, women have more opportunity and are highly capable of taking care of themselves. So the question is: is marriage necessary?

08-24-2006 04:51 PM

Re: Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?
Termi0n
Regular Contributor
Termi0n

ehm wrote:
My high horse? You just used the term “femi-nazi” towards someone you’ve read a few sentences from, and I’m the one on the horse?

You can’t even spell “genius” correctly.

Oh, and it’s “you’re”… not “your.”

And no one cares? Seems a message board full of people care quite a bit. How ’bout you go slather the crazy talk on someone else? Thanks! You’re a doll!

HAHA. Ok. First I only needed to hear a few sentences to know you were a feminazi and I was right anyway. Second, there are bigger issues here than my typo’s but good eye! Third, no one cares about how great you think you are, really.

Women want fried ice. -Arab Proverb

08-24-2006 05:05 PM

Re: Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?
paully
Contributor
paully

Bekis:
You are right, i stand corrected. There are two articles that may be what he’s referencing in the statement “If they quit their jobs and stay home with the kids, they will be unhappy (Journal of Marriage and Family, 2003)”

Continuity and Change in Marital Quality Between 1980 and 2000

and

Satisfaction With Work and Family Life: No Evidence of a Cultural Reversal

I found that by simply doing a copy and paste into google and clicking the first link that showed up. I must note that only the Abstract of the study is available you can get the entire article for 40 bucks.

The second article abstract explains that it’s debunking a thought that women find more satisfaction at work than at home. If thats the case then our author has made a gross misinterpretation of the stats and therefore i can only assume that the rest of the article is also technically flawed. Since i don’t have the time nor inclination to follow up on all of his sources at the moment I will concede that his bias probably led him to only read the first sentence of the abstract and missed the “to the contrary” part.

Here’s the link i found:

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/bpl/jomf/2003/00000065/00000001

08-24-2006 05:09 PM

Re: Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?
ehm
Contributor
ehm

I’m sorry, all I can hear is “crazy, crazy, crazy.”

08-24-2006 05:13 PM

Re: Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?
paully
Contributor
paully

ehm:

> I believe that these “facts” are just as true of men — which is why the article is inappropriately skewed.

Even if these “facts” (note my previous post) are just as true of men, the article is not inappropriately skewed. The title of it was “Don’t Marry Career Women”

The topic has nothing to do with how career men interact in marriages, their track record on fidelity and house work as well as child rearing. Therefore, he hasn’t been inappropriate. The topic he chose to write about doesn’t require him to report those stats. If the topic he wrote about was careers and marriages then by all means you are absolutely right.

08-24-2006 05:40 PM

Re: Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?
ehm
Contributor
ehm

Paully: I sort of think you’re going after a point I wasn’t making. Really, here, I was just shocked that a lot of men seem to be uneducatedly and outlandishly tearing down women for being upset about this article. I really don’t think it’s so far-fetched for women to be offended by this… do you? Argument aside, can you really not see where the “bad” is in this?

The people who can’t — those are the ones that it’s disturbing to know are part of everyday society somewhere out there. My first opinions posted here were completely about the men posting here — not the article. Does that clarify my comments a little?

As far as his entitlement to writing this article? I was a journalism major in college, so you’re not going to hear a peep from me as to whether he had the right to write this. He can say whatever the heck he wants provides it makes it past his editors.

I said it in another thread, and I’ll say it here — to be presented fairly and correctly, it should have appeared without that preachy, instructional video tone. It did NOT need to have that first paragraph, or the overall tone of “women and their new-fangled ideas are ruining everything!” to address the subject.

I think the author could’ve done a much better job on this, but I’m not going to tear down the facts. Merely that they should have been presented more fairly to both sexes.

08-24-2006 06:07 PM

Re: Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?
paully
Contributor
paully

ehm:

Well considering the topic of the article and your stance on the subject at hand I think a more effective approach would be to find flaws in the conclusions he’s drawn. For example: his premsie that both working partners are more likely to get a divorce because overwhelming majority of divorces contain working couples. I would say: did the study take into account spending habits of the couples, geographic location(standard of living) couples debts, etc… I would point out the miriad of legitimate and stated reasons for divorce rather than saying “well, you guys do it too!” or “thats not true, look at the _singular_ example of my life” which seems to be alot of the rebuttals. (not to mention the fact that it’s been pointed out that men have been career minded, absent and cheaters, yet divorce rate was down, the article is responding to the question “whats changed?”) I am merely pointing out that wether or not men are just as guilty of the same flaws has no bearing on his article nor should it in any response. Attack the logic he’s used to arrive at the conclusion. Does the evidence support a direct link between divorce and career minded women? “No because… Leap in logic here…. eperical data later in the research debunks his assumption here….other research overwhelmingly attributes recent divorce to…”

08-24-2006 06:48 PM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?

Re: Why are Women getting so Angry with this article?
IshWishDish
Regular Contributor
IshWishDish

So the question is: is marriage necessary?

My opinion? No. Marriage is not necessary. I actually suspect we are witnessing the very early stages of the death of marriage, but I’d guess that it will be well beyond our children’s lifetimes when the death certificate is ultimately signed. It’s too deeply embedded in our culture to go quickly.

I frankly think it’s a silly institution to keep; it was created to serve purposes that no longer apply in the western world, and attempts to convert it to something more suited to our modern ideas about family and relations between men and women have met with limited success.

Now that I’ve said that, you should keep in mind that I’m married and intend to stay that way. Why? Because I fell all dopey in love. “It’s a fool who looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart.” Why is this relevant? Well, marriage can be (or at least has been) two things: a domestic business arrangement or an expression of love. If you advocate the former, you should understand that that institution has been the cornerstone of women’s oppression for millenia. If you advocate the latter you must understand why this article would be offensive to so many women.

08-24-2006 10:26 PM

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