Disgusted


Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – Disgusted

Disgusted
Amisoup
Contributor
Amisoup

I have to admit, I have been naive about the marriage thing in regards to men and women’s beliefs.

I had no idea, before reading these messages, that there were so many men, so many outspoken men that had such a problem with the idea of marrying a successful woman. Frankly, it’s disgusting. I speak not as a feminist, and not as a college graduate, but a young professional who also works 50+ hours a week and makes > 50K/year. I do consider myself a “career girl”. I am also a single mother, who would not marry because of one mistake.

In my personal opinion (I do not feel it is necessary to cite statistical sources as this is my OPINION, and in response to many other’s OPINIONS – don’t jump on me for that), that many of the men on here responding with cynicism about marriage in general, have a deep fundamental problem with their self esteem. Is it really necessary to lump all women, professional or not, into a couple categories?
There are working women out there that want to marry to have a husband support them, but cannot sit back and (as another poster has noted, he likes the waitresses) do nothing until Prince Charming comes along. They have to work. They should be applauded, not passed over because they have a brain as well as breasts.

What the heck happened to falling on love and building a relationship? I read several posts where men were using a few friends’ testimonies to the “state of marriage” – this phrase screaming volumes that they believe every marriage is the same – is screwed up here in this day and age by women’s lib and women working. Do you really have to puff out your yellow chest and crow the loudest to feel like a man? I am NOT advocating that these men who have posted run out and marry ANYONE or anyTHING, as they do not seem to have the level of emotional intelligence to carry out a binding relationship. I am realizing, the more I type, that this most likely not worth my time to debate. They should change the “FORBES” on the URL to http://www.ihavealittleprobleminmypants.com

08-28-2006 12:33 AM

Re: Disgusted
toadman
Regular Contributor
toadman

Almost considered a response until your last shaming sentence.  Next…!

08-28-2006 12:38 AM

Re: Disgusted
Romulus
Regular Contributor
Romulus
Another post which skirts the true issues (marriage statistics, divorce statistics, etc.), seeks to validate one’s self worth, while unilaterally shaming and villifying all males. It truly never changes, like a broken record over and over and over.

Message Edited by Romulus on 08-28-2006 12:38 AM

08-28-2006 12:38 AM

Re: Disgusted
legacy42
Contributor
legacy42

You refused to marry because of one little mistake?  Hope your kid doesn’t read that.  The child is not a mistake, but a blessing and the fact that you have not opted to provide him/her with a father or excluded the father from the child’s life is your shortcoming.  Perhaps your career is more important.

08-28-2006 12:42 AM

Re: Disgusted
leeraconteur
Regular Contributor
leeraconteur

I am also a single mother, who would not marry because of one mistake.

You do know that children reared by single parents exhibit an entire spectrum of problems that children from traditional families do not?

You prove Noer’s thesis.  Career women make poor choices for a man to marry.

“…many of the men on here responding with cynicism about marriage in general, have a deep fundamental problem with their self esteem.”

Slams, insults and veiled ad hominem attacks simply don’t work.

I won’t speak for others, but my self-esteem is very high and almost bullet proof.

Try again.

There are working women out there that want to marry to have a husband support them, but cannot sit back and (as another poster has noted, he likes the waitresses) do nothing until Prince Charming comes along. They have to work.

They have to work because Feminists protested and lobbied for women in the workplace, and the surge of laborers suppressed wages for everyone.  Thus both in a couple now must work.

I am realizing, the more I type, that this most likely not worth my time to debate. They should change the “FORBES” on the URL to http://www.ihavealittleprobleminmypants.com.

Here we have the real attitude underneath the veneer of many career women on this board.  Insults about the size of man’s genitalia simply don’t work.  Those of us who agree with Noer have heard and read that kind of slam for 10+ years, and we simply don’t care about such purile ‘debating tactics’ anymore.

Do you have anything cogent to post?

Message Edited by leeraconteur on 08-28-200612:51 AM

Message Edited by leeraconteur on 08-28-2006 12:51 AM

08-28-2006 12:45 AM

Re: Disgusted
JWatkins
Contributor
JWatkins
Amisoup

Why the bitterness, why the resentment? All the author did was to give advice, that statistically speaking, marrying a woman with a career is a bad idea.

Are you opposed to men making a decision of their own, or just plain bitter that you are being passed over? Women have every right to marry whomsoever they choose, shouldn’t men similarly be entitled to do the same?

Are you also disgusted by men who pass over on fat and ugly women? If not, why not?

08-28-2006 12:47 AM

Re: Disgusted
Amisoup
Contributor
Amisoup

If you felt shamed or vilified, it’s on you. And saying “all males” is proving my point: you are lumping again. I directly targeted those in previous posts, not every male on the globe. And thank you for reminding me, I have a little more to say. I must admit the topic and what I read had me a bit heated. Must be my estrogen infused, emotionally charged illogical woman side.

Let’s forget who wears the money making pants. Let’s talk about basic human nature. We, as a higher evolved species, crave companionship. A woman tends to be the nurturing side, a man tends to be the protector. If, in a relationship, both sides complete this arrangement, there are benefits for both parties, as well as any children that may be in the equation. Deep down, unless some anti social behavior is present, every person feels the need of a companion. For comfort as well as sex. Even if a woman is working, she still will bring the nurturing side into the household. Even if a woman is working and a man is not, there will still be a side of human complexity that a woman can bring to the table.

I am not one who believes “I can do anything you can do better” in regards to male vs. female. I DO believe that the differences in our genders makes us more compatible than if we were an asexual species. The thought that marriage altogether should be ruled out blows my mind.

I also realize that when you take away a man’s “hunting and gathering” and equalize it with the woman doing the same, you are stepping in his territory and there will be some shame and, let’s face it, jealousy. If I were a man, I would consider myself lucky to have a woman intent on being a wife as well as providing income for the family and get over my insecurity.

08-28-2006 01:00 AM

Re: Disgusted
porkchops38
Regular Contributor
porkchops38

Amisoup wrote:
I have to admit, I have been naive about the marriage thing in regards to men and women’s beliefs.

I had no idea, before reading these messages, that there were so many men, so many outspoken men that had such a problem with the idea of marrying a successful woman. Frankly, it’s disgusting. I speak not as a feminist, and not as a college graduate, but a young professional who also works 50+ hours a week and makes > 50K/year. I do consider myself a “career girl”. I am also a single mother, who would not marry because of one mistake.

In my personal opinion (I do not feel it is necessary to cite statistical sources as this is my OPINION, and in response to many other’s OPINIONS – don’t jump on me for that), that many of the men on here responding with cynicism about marriage in general, have a deep fundamental problem with their self esteem. Is it really necessary to lump all women, professional or not, into a couple categories?

There are working women out there that want to marry to have a husband support them, but cannot sit back and (as another poster has noted, he likes the waitresses) do nothing until Prince Charming comes along. They have to work. They should be applauded, not passed over because they have a brain as well as breasts.

What the heck happened to falling on love and building a relationship? I read several posts where men were using a few friends’ testimonies to the “state of marriage” – this phrase screaming volumes that they believe every marriage is the same – is screwed up here in this day and age by women’s lib and women working. Do you really have to puff out your yellow chest and crow the loudest to feel like a man? I am NOT advocating that these men who have posted run out and marry ANYONE or anyTHING, as they do not seem to have the level of emotional intelligence to carry out a binding relationship. I am realizing, the more I type, that this most likely not worth my time to debate. They should change the “FORBES” on the URL to http://www.ihavealittleprobleminmypants.com

“What the heck happened to falling on love and building a relationship?”

ROTFLMAO….

I think that train left the station about 9:27 am….

on december 5, 1972

you must have missed it, try for the next train…

the next train is full of old bag ladies with enstranged children and ex-husbands that hate their guts, but the train has one whole car dedicated to nothing but exotic species of cats

08-28-2006 01:02 AM

Re: Disgusted
Amisoup
Contributor
Amisoup

Just read the way I posted that and realized the way it came across.

No, my son was not the mistake. The mistake was one I made to not ensure that it did not happen with someone I was not prepared to give it a shot with.

And his father is extremely involved in his life. We have a great platonic relationship and have always put our son’s best interest first, which is more than I can say for many divorcees.

No, my career was not as important as it is now. I have the financial responsibility of my son as well as myself and it is not an “I want it all” approach, it is an “I want HIM to have it all.”

As far as his future problems that you foresee for being raised in a single parent household, maybe you should criticize less with a mother who is doing everything in her power to do right by her son, and not using your tax dollars for food stamps.

08-28-2006 01:09 AM

Re: Disgusted
JWatkins
Contributor
JWatkins
Amnisoup, your post illustrates your inability to understand. Most men are more than content with their earning power, and do not seek to enter marriage for an additional source of income. You’re confusing what women seek in marriage with what men seek.

How can a woman with a full time career be nuturing? It’s impossible to work a 50 hour week AND support you child, unless you believe dumping him/her in a nursery or to someone who’s only incentive to do so is financial. Children brought up in such environments grow up to suffer setbacks and are usually socially disadvantaged as a result of it.

But again, you gloss over my earlier questions. Why is it so bad for men to have a choice in whom they wish to marry? Is it similarly wrong for them to only seek pretty, slim girls? If not, why not?

08-28-2006 01:09 AM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – Disgusted

Re: Disgusted
Romulus
Regular Contributor
Romulus
“Do you really have to puff out your yellow chest and crow the loudest to feel like a man? I am NOT advocating that these men who have posted run out and marry ANYONE or anyTHING, as they do not seem to have the level of emotional intelligence to carry out a binding relationship. I am realizing, the more I type, that this most likely not worth my time to debate. They should change the “FORBES” on the URL to http://www.ihavealittleprobleminmypants.com”

vilify: to speak ill of; defame; slander.
shame: to cover with ignominy or reproach; disgrace

Let’s see – if I compare the definitions with your comments, it shows that your comments illustrate the definitions of shaming and vilifying. Sounds like a logical deduction that you engaged in such activity.

“If you felt shamed or vilified, it’s on you.”

Interesting, so now I am being told how I should feel about comments you made. And this is the equality that you feminists rallied for? sounds like fascism to me.

“The thought that marriage altogether should be ruled out blows my mind.”

As men we are faced with the following options with regards to marriage (a contractural relationship as defined by state law, not a romantic union as defined by literary novels, tv shows, movies, etc):

1) a marriage where we are given no rights and presented with a list of emotional and financial duties and demands.
2) a marriage where there is mutual benefit to both parties and both husband and wife are happy.
3) 50% chance that marriage ends in divorce, with 70% chance of it being initiated by the woman. Where we potentially lose 1/2 out assets and visitation rights.

The fact of the matter is that feminisim, financial & emotional demands on husbands, anti-male marriage laws, divorce rates, custody laws, etc. have created a system where the incentive on the man is to not marry. Even the chance of finding a partner and a marriage where both parties mutually benefit and are happy are outweighed by the negative implications of marriage. And now feminists are enraged that men aren’t marrying. You have no one to blame but yourselves. If you want our views on marriage to change, you need to alter the system.

Message Edited by Romulus on 08-28-2006 01:25 AM

08-28-2006 01:17 AM

Re: Disgusted
Amisoup
Contributor
Amisoup

The “bitterness and resentment” that you see here is not directed towards the author of the article. It is directed towards the many men on here who believe they need to form a boy’s club and attack career women.

I absolutely agree that men are entitled to marry whomever, or IF ever they choose. As far as myself being “passed over” – I have not turned this into a specific attack on you, but for the record, I have had to pass many over for my career  – all spare time is spent with my son, and so so sadly there is no time for trying to hook a feisty physician such as yourself. (Sorry, I’m not from Europe or Asia, either).

As far as the fat/ugly question, no, I am not disgusted by thier personal prefernces. If a person were to say “she’s too fat and ugly”, I would think they were shallow, and at the same time I have not dated a man I thought was fat or ugly. Shame on me… my purpose for the original post was to throw my two cents in, and wonder aloud why these men posting have such a problem with a woman with an IQ over 100.

08-28-2006 01:22 AM

Re: Disgusted
leeraconteur
Regular Contributor
leeraconteur

If you felt shamed or vilified, it’s on you.

What exactly would a normal man think if you post “I am realizing, the more I type, that this most likely not worth my time to debate. They should change the “FORBES” on the URL to http://www.ihavealittleprobleminmypants.com.”

You display a near complete lack of responsibility for what you post.  Amazing.

“..saying “all males” is proving my point: you are lumping again.”

No, you just intend to shame anyone who surfs to http://www.forbes.com.
While technically not all males, it certainly is a large number of men.

You seemed reasonable until the ‘ihavealittle..’ jab.  Then your unwillingness to take responsibility for posting it just compounds your lack of integrity.

08-28-2006 01:24 AM

Re: Disgusted
Xasthur_Within
Contributor
Xasthur_Within

Amisoup wrote:
I have to admit, I have been naive about the marriage thing in regards to men and women’s beliefs.

I had no idea, before reading these messages, that there were so many men, so many outspoken men that had such a problem with the idea of marrying a successful woman. Frankly, it’s disgusting. I speak not as a feminist, and not as a college graduate, but a young professional who also works 50+ hours a week and makes > 50K/year. I do consider myself a “career girl”. I am also a single mother, who would not marry because of one mistake.

In my personal opinion (I do not feel it is necessary to cite statistical sources as this is my OPINION, and in response to many other’s OPINIONS – don’t jump on me for that), that many of the men on here responding with cynicism about marriage in general, have a deep fundamental problem with their self esteem. Is it really necessary to lump all women, professional or not, into a couple categories?

There are working women out there that want to marry to have a husband support them, but cannot sit back and (as another poster has noted, he likes the waitresses) do nothing until Prince Charming comes along. They have to work. They should be applauded, not passed over because they have a brain as well as breasts.

What the heck happened to falling on love and building a relationship? I read several posts where men were using a few friends’ testimonies to the “state of marriage” – this phrase screaming volumes that they believe every marriage is the same – is screwed up here in this day and age by women’s lib and women working. Do you really have to puff out your yellow chest and crow the loudest to feel like a man? I am NOT advocating that these men who have posted run out and marry ANYONE or anyTHING, as they do not seem to have the level of emotional intelligence to carry out a binding relationship. I am realizing, the more I type, that this most likely not worth my time to debate. They should change the “FORBES” on the URL to http://www.ihavealittleprobleminmypants.com

Self esteem issues have little to do with cynical attitudes towards marriage. When women are divorcing men at a higher rate than men are filing divorce against women, something needs to be highlighted and the institution of marriage called into serious question.

Personally, the idea of a woman riding on my coattails doesn’t wash. You wanted to enter the workworld, you got that option. And you still aren’t happy. And proving the Forbes article CORRECT about that point.

I find it interesting that women will laugh and mock single men for being wary of marriage itself yet will get upset when men actually stick to their guns. If marriage is such a raw deal for women, why do women want it so much? Why all of the name calling and attacks on masculinity?

As for myself, for years I wanted a one on one relationship with a decent and attractive woman. Many women I know seem to have trouble committing and intimacy problems they believe that men possess—it’s clear projection. As much as women cry and moan otherwise, many men seriously WOULD have had a romantic relationship/healthy marriage . . . that is until they found out marriage isn’t actually a good thing, and American women have the law and societal norms on their side. Marriage benefits women. And ya gotta protect women no matter what, ya know.

On top of that, there are many career women that believe a large volume of men are beneath them or just plain “Average Joes.” They are looking at a narrow spectrum of men near or at the apex of success, status, and looks—who cares about personality when keeping up with the Joneses is more important, and finding a trophy husband will gain the approval of their uppercrust peers, right?

I don’t care if you’re offended or not, I don’t date single mothers. That’s a choice you made, and you have to work. That’s life. That’s what this culture tells men, to deal with it. You gals wanted equality—us men want you to stop giving just lipservice to it, and start actualizing it.

Message Edited by Xasthur_Within on 08-28-2006 01:29 AM

08-28-2006 01:26 AM

Re: Disgusted
ACatInSD
Regular Contributor
ACatInSD

I agree with you… in fact, a lot of times I do have sympathy with those poor men who stuck in bad marriages.

As a female, I do see there are a lot for the wives/girlfriends to improve themselves: be more reasonable, be more independent and be more rational. Don’t be too greedy to calculate the money in men’s pocket. I am telling you that it is more fun to make that on your own.

And I also see some parts from men that will need to improve as well: be straight forward to tell the woman you are dating with that you are not into marriage, that you just want to have some stable sex for now, that you don’t need to sweet-mounth her to go to bed. Otherwise, pay for the sex you want. That will be a lot easier.

08-28-2006 01:28 AM

Re: Disgusted
JWatkins
Contributor
JWatkins
The “bitterness and resentment” that you see here is not directed towards the author of the article. It is directed towards the many men on here who believe they need to form a boy’s club and attack career women.

—————————————-
As far as the fat/ugly question, no, I am not disgusted by thier personal prefernces. If a person were to say “she’s too fat and ugly”, I would think they were shallow, and at the same time I have not dated a man I thought was fat or ugly. Shame on me…
—————————————-

So you are “disgusted” at the thought that men may prefer a stay at home wife over a career wife but believe it to be fine to not date a man who’s ugly or fat?

So what is the difference between you and me? My standards aren’t much more than yours. My standards are centred around compassion, trust, and shallow appearances; yours around shallow appearances.

What’s the big deal? Are you disgusted by yourself?

——————————————
my purpose for the original post was to throw my two cents in, and wonder aloud why these men posting have such a problem with a woman with an IQ over 100.
——————————————

If you have an IQ of above 100, you aren’t making a great case of proving it dear.

08-28-2006 01:33 AM

Re: Disgusted
Amisoup
Contributor
Amisoup

OK – please read my post (wait, you have – you included it in your reply)… I am NOT a feminist. I HAVE TO WORK FOR A LIVING. It is not an OPTION to sit and wait for a man to take care of me. This is where my opinion comes from. I read the replies from men who want a little lady who has never worked a day in her life, just sits and tries to capture the gaze of a man in a suit. It does not make sense to me. Please don’t get me wrong – I am not asking any of you for a date – and would probably run in the other direction if I knew your mentality up front.

And the “equality” comment. As I have stated above, READ MY POST. I have explained how I feel about equality. Men and women are different and I agree with that, and would want it no other way.

For anyone else who wants to call me a bitter feminist:
Please read what I have posted before going off on a tangent.

08-28-2006 01:35 AM

Re: Disgusted
Xasthur_Within
Contributor
Xasthur_Within

ACatInSD wrote:
And I also see some parts from men that will need to improve as well: be straight forward to tell the woman you are dating with that you are not into marriage, that you just want to have some stable sex for now, that you don’t need to sweet-mounth her to go to bed. Otherwise, pay for the sex you want. That will be a lot easier.

It isn’t easier. There are women who don’t want to hear brutal honesty. I make no bones about how I shun marriage and still am very sexual. Most women don’t want to hear that. Wonder why players resort to lying? Telling women what they want to hear pays off quicker.

08-28-2006 01:36 AM

Re: Disgusted
Amisoup
Contributor
Amisoup

I am sorry, have been replying to many posts in the last few minutes, where did I not take responsibility for posting the comment?

Yes, I said it.

08-28-2006 01:41 AM

Re: Disgusted
ACatInSD
Regular Contributor
ACatInSD

I have a male friend who is a CFO of a company. He got divorced a couple of years ago. His wife quit her job after the marriage. Soon she complained the housework, and hired a maid. Then she cried for a kid, he gave her one. After that she said it was too much for her to take care of the kid, then they hired another nanny. Finally she used his credit card to have some breast implants. Then he was mad and pissed, and realized he made a stupid mistake step by step.

Now he told me he will never take a look at those women who claimed that they would sacrifice their career for the marriage and children.

It is the bad/mismatched personalities that cause the problem. People are usually attacted to each other because of appearances, not the personality. It sounds shallow – I myself won’t date an fat/ugly guy. But it make sense too: I am beautiful, fit and go to gym almost 7 times a week, fitness for me is no longer about the looks, it is about the life style, which is part of the personality.

08-28-2006 01:43 AM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – Disgusted

Re: Disgusted
Xasthur_Within
Contributor
Xasthur_Within

Amisoup wrote:
OK – please read my post (wait, you have – you included it in your reply)… I am NOT a feminist. I HAVE TO WORK FOR A LIVING. It is not an OPTION to sit and wait for a man to take care of me. This is where my opinion comes from. I read the replies from men who want a little lady who has never worked a day in her life, just sits and tries to capture the gaze of a man in a suit. It does not make sense to me. Please don’t get me wrong – I am not asking any of you for a date – and would probably run in the other direction if I knew your mentality up front.

And the “equality” comment. As I have stated above, READ MY POST. I have explained how I feel about equality. Men and women are different and I agree with that, and would want it no other way.

For anyone else who wants to call me a bitter feminist:

Please read what I have posted before going off on a tangent.

Don’t worry. I can get dates, like many other men,and don’t need your assistance.

Guess what—the vast majority of men don’t have anyone taking care of them. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, perhaps you should question your own values and stop making assumptions, false premises, and not-so veiled attacks.

08-28-2006 01:44 AM

Re: Disgusted
Xasthur_Within
Contributor
Xasthur_Within

ACatInSD wrote:
>
It is the bad/mismatched personalities that cause the problem. People are usually attacted to each other because of appearances, not the personality. It sounds shallow – I myself won’t date an fat/ugly guy. But it make sense too: I am beautiful, fit and go to gym almost 7 times a week, fitness for me is no longer about the looks, it is about the life style, which is part of the personality.

I also keep in excellent shape, by working out, running, doing Thai boxing, grappling, and trying to eat healthy. And I’m no hunchback, either.

So women that aren’t taking steps to improve themselves physically, and yet demand Brad Pitt for a mate, should either get on a treadmill once in a while or wake up out of their self-imposed delusion.

Message Edited by Xasthur_Within on 08-28-2006 01:53 AM

08-28-2006 01:51 AM

Re: Disgusted
Romulus
Regular Contributor
Romulus
“And the “equality” comment. As I have stated above, READ MY POST. I have explained how I feel about equality. Men and women are different and I agree with that, and would want it no other way.”

But it doesn’t change the fact that you are telling me how I should feel about comments you made. What happened to the rights I have over my body, my thoughts, and my feelings? Only dictators, slave masters, bullies, etc. engage in such behavior.

“This is where my opinion comes from. I read the replies from men who want a little lady who has never worked a day in her life, just sits and tries to capture the gaze of a man in a suit. It does not make sense to me.”

I never claimed to want a little lady to marry – my view is that marriage is too much of a risk for me and I’ve shunned it completely. Feminism has sexually liberated the female – I can go out and have sex with no commitments, why should I marry? However, you are arguing that you made a decision to work and you’re resentful at men b/c they seek to marry women who aren’t career women. So we don’t have a choice on who to marry anymore? There’s that bullying, dictator mentality sneaking in again.

Has it ever occurred to you that marrying career women would mean that competing priorities would be brought to the table. Such an environment would mean that either one party’s priorities takes precedence over the other’s or that both parties compromise at the expense of each other’s careers. Both situations lead to feelings of resentment, leading to unhappiness which has been shown as the primary factor of divorce. In divorce situations men have more to lose, can you blame us for wanting to put ourselves in situations where we minimize divorce? Any sane person would minimize risk. Or maybe we are so threatened by career women such as yourselves to engage in such logical deductions.

Message Edited by Romulus on 08-28-2006 02:00 AM

08-28-2006 01:51 AM

Re: Disgusted
Amisoup
Contributor
Amisoup

I had no idea that the ideas posted on this board still existed. I made it clear, in my very first sentence, that “I have to admit, I have been naive about the marriage thing in regards to men and women’s beliefs.” The disgust stems from the fact that there are so many men that believe that the only good partner is one that stays at home and does the dishes. Anything other than that will end in divorce.

As I also have stated, I am not advocating that you, yourself, go out and find you a nice fat ugly girl to marry. I have agreed with you that it is your choice. I have agreed with you that you should do whatever it is that makes your heart content. I just don’t agree with your reasoning, and it pisses me off.

As far as the shallow appearances – sexual attraction as a motivator to be with someone is human nature. Someone I consider attractive may not be what the girl next to me likes.

08-28-2006 01:52 AM

Re: Disgusted
TheBM
Contributor
TheBM
It does not matter if it is a woman who works or stays home. All women are no longer marraige worthy. They are hateful spitful beings who hate men and do not respect men. They take joy in seeing men in pain and stepped on for they consider men to be less than human and women view themselves as superior.

Take note men. The original poster blames all divorces on men. It has to be us, It has to be because we have a little problem in the pants. It has to be because we are the problem. No woman can have issues according to these monsters.

The only course of action is to bow out of the marraige game. Do not give them a chance to take advantage of you. They are incapable of love, respect and honor towards men.

Message Edited by TheBM on 08-27-2006 10:58 PM

08-28-2006 01:56 AM

Re: Disgusted
TheBM
Contributor
TheBM
They blame us men for all divorces because they enjoy seeing other women get one over on men. They love seeing men being kicked when they are down.

Trust me men. I know this from first hand experience. Do not get married at all. Just stay single. Plenty of free sex out there so go get your fill and when you are done pick her up and dump her out your door. As the longer she is around you the more risk you put yourself. They will always take what they can and will make sure you will be in the worst situation you have ever found yourself in.

08-28-2006 02:01 AM

Re: Disgusted
Amisoup
Contributor
Amisoup

“Guess what—the vast majority of men don’t have anyone taking care of them. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, perhaps you should question your own values and stop making assumptions, false premises, and not-so veiled attacks.”

My point exactly. I am taking care of myself, and very well I might add. I read these threads and find that there are men that are ruling me out because I have the ability and ambition to just that. I am not looking for a man with no career – why would a man?

I do understand what many of these men that are posting want, and I know that I am not it. Quite frankly, I am perfectly fine with this. Betty Crocker I ain’t. My original post was shock at their reasoning.

08-28-2006 02:01 AM

Re: Disgusted
Amisoup
Contributor
Amisoup

Wow. I pity you.

08-28-2006 02:02 AM

Re: Disgusted
JWatkins
Contributor
JWatkins
I had no idea that the ideas posted on this board still existed. I made it clear, in my very first sentence, that “I have to admit, I have been naive about the marriage thing in regards to men and women’s beliefs.”

As was I. I hadn’t realised that so many women would get so hysterically offended and incensed by MY personal preferences, I especially didn’t like the bit where you started resorting to personal attacks.

“The disgust stems from the fact that there are so many men that believe that the only good partner is one that stays at home and does the dishes. Anything other than that will end in divorce.”

That isn’t what the article claimed, it wasn’t as dramatic as that. It just stated that statistically marrying career girls were less likely to result in a successful relationship.

“As I also have stated, I am not advocating that you, yourself, go out and find you a nice fat ugly girl to marry. I have agreed with you that it is your choice. I have agreed with you that you should do whatever it is that makes your heart content. I just don’t agree with your reasoning, and it pisses me off.”

Go back and read the rhetoric of your first post, and you’ll see what I mean. If it was out of character I think you owe somebody an apology.

“As far as the shallow appearances – sexual attraction as a motivator to be with someone is human nature. Someone I consider attractive may not be what the girl next to me likes. ”

As a “feisty doctor”, I understand your justification of why you seek an attractive partner. I may, or may not agree with it, but your choice of partner is your prerogative – I certainly wouldn’t get offended whatever your preferences were.

My reasons for wanting to marry a traditional “stay-at-home” wife is because I feel she would be able to devote more time towards me, and the children if I have any. Is that any more selfish than what you want?

08-28-2006 02:03 AM

Re: Disgusted
Romulus
Regular Contributor
Romulus
“I do understand what many of these men that are posting want, and I know that I am not it. Quite frankly, I am perfectly fine with this.”

Interesting, sure doesn’t sound like your fine with it based on your previous comments:

“I read several posts where men were using a few friends’ testimonies to the “state of marriage” – this phrase screaming volumes that they believe every marriage is the same – is screwed up here in this day and age by women’s lib and women working. Do you really have to puff out your yellow chest and crow the loudest to feel like a man? I am NOT advocating that these men who have posted run out and marry ANYONE or anyTHING, as they do not seem to have the level of emotional intelligence to carry out a binding relationship. I am realizing, the more I type, that this most likely not worth my time to debate. They should change the “FORBES” on the URL to http://www.ihavealittleprobleminmypants.com”

08-28-2006 02:03 AM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – Disgusted

Re: Disgusted
Xasthur_Within
Contributor
Xasthur_Within

Amisoup wrote:
I had no idea that the ideas posted on this board still existed. I made it clear, in my very first sentence, that “I have to admit, I have been naive about the marriage thing in regards to men and women’s beliefs.” The disgust stems from the fact that there are so many men that believe that the only good partner is one that stays at home and does the dishes. Anything other than that will end in divorce.

As I also have stated, I am not advocating that you, yourself, go out and find you a nice fat ugly girl to marry. I have agreed with you that it is your choice. I have agreed with you that you should do whatever it is that makes your heart content. I just don’t agree with your reasoning, and it pisses me off.

As far as the shallow appearances – sexual attraction as a motivator to be with someone is human nature. Someone I consider attractive may not be what the girl next to me likes.

If it pisses you off, guess what, welcome to the real world.

BTW, I’d have little problems getting involved with a career woman (with no kids or several divorces under her belt) if SO many career women didn’t have problems with intimacy and staying true to one man, and the fact that marriage is such a risky business for men in the first place.

I know career women who think men (of the same stature, looks, income, lifestyle) are still not ‘good enough.’ Why is that?

Why is it that so many women who have to work emphasize that they have to with anger, yet hate the idea of women staying home? They brag about their accomplishments (through the lens of feminism) and yet resent going to work, but also resent the idea of being ‘barefoot and pregnant’ . . . are American women that unhappy with everything? Seriously?

Why is it that women want choices, yet men still have to be in traditional roles (provider, father/husband, breadwinner) and he’s a loser/childish if he doesn’t want to marry or have children, yet women are considered independent if they are single and don’t have kids?

Message Edited by Xasthur_Within on 08-28-2006 02:07 AM

08-28-2006 02:05 AM

Re: Disgusted
TheBM
Contributor
TheBM
Women do not respect men who love and treat them with respect. They view such men as weak. They only respect strenth and fear. That is why they stay with abusive men. That is why they use and abuse men who actually attempt to care and love them. They do not want care and love for they do not respect these attributes in men. They hate and loath men. They will take and get away with anything they can. That is why in the past it was fine to punch your woman in the face to keep her in line.

That is the only thing women respect. They do NOT respect men who love them and respect them. They do not respect men who are only looking for companionship. They will use those men and drag his soul as far down as possible for their own enjoyment.

When you are a beaten man. Other women will laugh at your misfortune. They will say it was your fault for not being strong enough. They will blame you and only you for they can never see fault with their own kind.

08-28-2006 02:07 AM

Re: Disgusted
Amisoup
Contributor
Amisoup

Mr Romulus-

I am fine with the fact that there are men out there that have the little man complex. They are free to pick and chose whichever woman they want. I wanted to vent and I did. Knowing what I know now, a major question for me in the future is “what do you think about a woman who has a career?”

Thank you, small minded men, for showing me something I was not aware of.

08-28-2006 02:09 AM

Re: Disgusted
TheBM
Contributor
TheBM
“Why is it that women want choices, yet men still have to be in traditional roles (provider, father/husband, breadwinner) and he’s a loser/childish if he doesn’t want to marry or have children, yet women are considered independent if they are single and don’t have kids?”

Because if men do not marry and stay within traditional bounds. It is harder to take him for all he is worth.

08-28-2006 02:10 AM

Re: Disgusted
Romulus
Regular Contributor
Romulus
“Mr Romulus-

I am fine with the fact that there are men out there that have the little man complex. They are free to pick and chose whichever woman they want. I wanted to vent and I did. Knowing what I know now, a major question for me in the future is “what do you think about a woman who has a career?”

Thank you, small minded men, for showing me something I was not aware of.”

I find it so interesting that women will vehemently state time and time again that men are immature, childish, etc. Yet they readily resort to personal attacks and bickering when confronted with an argument. Have I ever unjustifiably called you names in any of my posts? Have I ever mocked you for being a single mother? For someone who claims to be a career woman, with a high IQ, you really are no better than the 5th grader who bullies the 3rd grader around the playground.

GENTLEMEN: Let Amisoup be a reminder to everyone, of the kind of liberated career women out there that you will be dealing with in relationships.

Message Edited by Romulus on 08-28-2006 02:39 AM

08-28-2006 02:18 AM

Re: Disgusted
Xasthur_Within
Contributor
Xasthur_Within

TheBM wrote:
Women do not respect men who love and treat them with respect. They view such men as weak. They only respect strenth and fear. That is why they stay with abusive men. That is why they use and abuse men who actually attempt to care and love them. They do not want care and love for they do not respect these attributes in men. They hate and loath men. They will take and get away with anything they can. That is why in the past it was fine to punch your woman in the face to keep her in line.

That is the only thing women respect. They do NOT respect men who love them and respect them. They do not respect men who are only looking for companionship. They will use those men and drag his soul as far down as possible for their own enjoyment.

When you are a beaten man. Other women will laugh at your misfortune. They will say it was your fault for not being strong enough. They will blame you and only you for they can never see fault with their own kind.

Very sad. But very, VERY true, BM.

You know, I used to be that sensitive, romantic guy. Not because it was ‘cool,’ it was because, when I was a teenager, I really WAS like that. I sang the praises of women, believed love was the greatest thing in the world. Even read metaphysical poetry, all of that stuff.

Women mocked and jeered it as weird, not trendy, not manly enough . . . I even had a woman this week thought I was the most unusual man she’d ever met because I was into ventures of depth.

And women are supposed to be NOT shallow?

They don’t appreciate it. It is all hollow to them. No matter HOW heartfelt.

American women confuse stability, being a gentleman with weakness. Their ideas of love and respect are far different that what they claim.

This is another reason I avoid marriage. They would rather throw themselves at a brute than truly be cared about (and empathize in turn). Or soil themselves in their youth, then demand men pay for their mistakes.

08-28-2006 02:20 AM

Re: Disgusted
TheBM
Contributor
TheBM

Romulus wrote:
“Mr Romulus-

I am fine with the fact that there are men out there that have the little man complex. They are free to pick and chose whichever woman they want. I wanted to vent and I did. Knowing what I know now, a major question for me in the future is “what do you think about a woman who has a career?”

Thank you, small minded men, for showing me something I was not aware of.”

I find it so interesting that women will vehemently state time and time again that men are immature, childish, etc. Yet they readily resort to personal attacks and bickering when confronted with an argument. Have I ever called you names in any of my posts? Have I ever mocked you for being a single mother? For someone who claims to be a career woman, with a high IQ, you really are no better than the 5th grader who bullies the 3rd grader around the playground.

You made a mistake here Romulus.

YOu are trying to debate with somebody with the idea of an equal amount of respect between two debaters. This is how most men argue with one another.
Women however, Argue from the standpoint that all men are wrong and evil. She argues with the point of view that all men and their viewpoints are beneath her. She does not respect men. She hates them as all women do as you can see from her words demeaning all men who do not fall in line to be abused by women.

That is what all these women are arguing for. Only to keep men brainwashed to make it easier to use and abuse us at will.

08-28-2006 02:23 AM

Re: Disgusted
Xasthur_Within
Contributor
Xasthur_Within

TheBM wrote:
“Why is it that women want choices, yet men still have to be in traditional roles (provider, father/husband, breadwinner) and he’s a loser/childish if he doesn’t want to marry or have children, yet women are considered independent if they are single and don’t have kids?”

Because if men do not marry and stay within traditional bounds. It is harder to take him for all he is worth.

Exactly. She has little to gain material-wise, and would either have to be with him and care for him for his personal value, rather than a means to an end or even exploit.

08-28-2006 02:24 AM

Re: Disgusted
Romulus
Regular Contributor
Romulus
“You made a mistake here Romulus.

YOu are trying to debate with somebody with the idea of an equal amount of respect between two debaters. This is how most men argue with one another.
Women however, Argue from the standpoint that all men are wrong and evil. She argues with the point of view that all men and their viewpoints are beneath her. She does not respect men. She hates them as all women do as you can see from her words demeaning all men who do not fall in line to be abused by women.

That is what all these women are arguing for. Only to keep men brainwashed to make it easier to use and abuse us at will.”

Believe me I know. I’ve had many arguments with women such as these over the years. I just want to illustrate her behavior to all the men out there reading these posts as a reminder of what they are dealing with – this is the potential spouse pool.

Message Edited by Romulus on 08-28-2006 02:28 AM

08-28-2006 02:27 AM

Re: Disgusted
leeraconteur
Regular Contributor
leeraconteur

The disgust stems from the fact that there are so many men that believe that the only good partner is one that stays at home and does the dishes.

Someone has to do the dishes, vacuum, clean, do laundry, make the beds, cook meals.  If children are in the home, and especially if those children are not of school age, then it definitely is better that one parent do these tasks, and not a staff of nannies, cooks, maids and gardeners.

Message Edited by leeraconteur on 08-28-2006 04:07 AM

08-28-2006 04:05 AM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – Disgusted

Re: Disgusted
crella
Regular Contributor
crella
These women have no idea how bad it makes them look to insult men (you’re homosexual, you have a small **bleep** etc) in trying to make a point.Were I a man, I’d just run faster! No man in his right mind would want a woman like that. ‘Oh it’s just the internet’ is the next comment you see a lot in situations like this. Which just means that this venom is always lurking just below the surface to be spewed at strangers, so that they are not acountable for it. It’s ‘okay’ because the people on the recieving end are strangers. There’s something ugly about that somehow.These women would probably not dare to say things like you’re seeing here to a man’s face. Be advised by this message board though, that this is what they are thinking…

The other point is that the ‘career women’ are trying to prove themselves superior by ridiculing housewives, calling them stupid, dolts, insinuating that they do nothing but eat all day. Besides making themselves look callous and vicious, you are also getting a window into how they view a house and home, and the effort they are willing to expend on one–none. In not one of my posts have I denigrated career women as a whole. I think that women should have a choice. They, however, do not extend the same courtesy to me.I do not think, though, that working makes them heroes or makes them better people somehow. All over the world, people work to survive. In America it’s to be crowed about. I have a feeling that the women who are intelligent and dedicated to their careers ‘just do it’. It is these women who have made a few rational posts about working. The rest probably don’t like working all that much, if the truth were to be told.

08-28-2006 05:27 AM

Re: Disgusted
Romulus
Regular Contributor
Romulus
“Besides making themselves look callous and vicious, you are also getting a window into how they view a house and home, and the effort they are willing to expend on one–none.”

Excellent point. Even if we set aside the liabilities of marriage – financial, divorce, etc. for men, entering marriage is a VOLUNTARY choice. As such men have EVERY right to choose a woman who will put house and home above her career, just as a woman has every right to choose to marry a doctor over a janitor. Career women castigate men for making this decision. You wanted equality and you got it, you wanted to do the same jobs men do and you got it, you wanted to be liberated and you got it. Now don’t complain when we choose what type of women we want to marry and spend our lives with. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, feminism is like the fat kid who not only doesnt want to share but wants to prevent others from eating.

08-28-2006 05:53 AM

Re: Disgusted
Cassius
Regular Contributor
Cassius
You are disgusted ? You are only disgusted when you do not get your share your hubby your baby. Where was your disgust when feminism implemented doubel standards, where was your disgusted when you realized that man cheating on his wife looses everything in divorce and a man whose wife cheats STILL looses everything in divorce.
I might not get married the way I want Waah Waah Iam disgusted.

Go DIAF

Your mom must be sorry she did not abort you.

08-28-2006 06:47 AM

Re: Disgusted
Hedgie
Regular Contributor
Hedgie

“GENTLEMEN: Let Amisoup be a reminder to everyone, of the kind of liberated career women out there that you will be dealing with in relationships.”

I’m reminded of this every time I pick up a liberated career woman, take her home and bang her, and send her home the next morning.

As I keep pointing out, American career women are good for little more than fun and games. That’s it. It’s a waste of time for men to worry what they think about us. Or to commit to them, or to become attached.

It’s time to act only for ourselves and take what we want.

08-28-2006 08:43 AM

Re: Disgusted
Jman
Contributor
Jman

Hey Amisoup, keep doing well for yourself and your son. I doubt you came to this conversation as a feminist, but as someone who had to do what she had to do in order to raise her son well.

The whole thing that gets me right now about this debate, is that it seems too many are looking at the whole economics of it and who gets to do what. If your going into to it trying to watch out about getting screwed over and ‘if anyone is doing the screwing over it should be me.’ No wonder everyone sounds so cynical and bitter. Goodness, you hear comments like well she wanted a child I even gave it to her. Of course if it’s going to be successful it’s all about love and building a relationship. If your not together always getting back on the same page and spending time just being with each other and reconnecting, your marriage is as good as a garden that was seeded well, but left to the elements getting overgrown with weeds and eaten by the bugs.

I guess if you don’t want to try to get married, I very much can’t blame you. I have a few friends that are single parent mothers. Always are busy, have to be. Sometimes I’d think they more than a single woman would appreciate a man that is interested in a family. But they probably also know how taxing a relationship is, and if it doesn’t work out the toll it takes, emotionally and mentally for both yourself and the children.

One other note, even if a potential spouse wants to be a stay at home parent, if it was me, I’d skip one that could not hold down a stable job. Also, that person better be sure to take advantage of learning opportunities. As the woman pointed out in the article, don’t marry a lazy man, as far as I’m concerned don’t marry a lazy person.

08-28-2006 11:38 AM

Re: Disgusted
moneyneversleep
Regular Contributor
moneyneversleep

These are the issues with most boys (in particular) are primarily raised by single mothers with limited involvement of their fathers:

1.  They lack the competitive instincts and reactions of their counterparts raised in a 2 parent household.
2.  They lack the teambuilding abilities necessary to succeed.
3.  They are more focused on going along to get along, rather than getting the task at hand completed.
4.  They have problems with goal setting and achieving those goals.
5.  They have a problem with hard work.
6.  They usually don’t understand healthy relationships with women since they usually don’t have one with their mother and their mother’s undue influence upon them, without the balancing of a father’s input, creates problems.
7.  They are usually weak/p*ssies.
8.  They usually lack the strong work ethic of their counterparts.

There are more issues, but most of these males raised by single mothers are truly f*cked.

08-28-2006 12:14 PM

Re: Disgusted
moneyneversleep
Regular Contributor
moneyneversleep

Here is a sage bit of advice for you:
1.  Get a large kitchen garbage bag and open it.
2.  Get a roll of duct tape out, you’ll know it’s duct tape since it is silver.
3.  Carefully place the bag over your head.
4.  Diligently tape it uniformly to your neck, be sure close any gaps where air can escape.
5.  Breath rapidly for 3-5 minutes.

Good bye shrill harpy.

08-28-2006 12:24 PM

Re: Disgusted
moneyneversleep
Regular Contributor
moneyneversleep

You child is latchkey.

08-28-2006 12:25 PM

Re: Disgusted
Jman
Contributor
Jman

“Here is a sage bit of advice for you:
1.  Get a large kitchen garbage bag and open it.
2.  Get a roll of duct tape out, you’ll know it’s duct tape since it is silver.
3.  Carefully place the bag over your head.
4.  Diligently tape it uniformly to your neck, be sure close any gaps where air can escape.
5.  Breath rapidly for 3-5 minutes.

Good bye shrill harpy.”

Very nice and thoughtful. Maybe next forbes can do a debate on civility vs. incivility.

08-28-2006 12:41 PM

Re: Disgusted
moneyneversleep
Regular Contributor
moneyneversleep

Or, better yet, a debate on fertility vs. infertility and it’s correlation to the aging population of women, over the age of 40 and the solutions they seek to resolve these issues.

08-28-2006 03:50 PM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – Disgusted

Re: Disgusted
dflynn5656
Contributor
dflynn5656

Amisoup wrote “I had no idea, before reading these messages, that there were so many men, so many outspoken men that had such a problem with the idea of marrying a successful woman. ”

Ami – men don’t consider women who’d rather do what their fathers did (rather than what mom did) successful.

Good men want women who prioritize the one thing that makes the risk of marriage worth it to a man –

CHILDREN.

Ami – if you place school, career and independence ahead of children in your life time schedule, it’s because you place them first in your priorities.  No good man has any use for that – and children don’t want to understand that they are their mother’s “second” priority.

If you DO find a man who is OK with that “children are last” compromise, you shouldn’t marry him.  Best of luck to you –

David

PS – If you are soooo confused as to think Dad should step up and be part time mom, it is because you believe men and women are interchangeable.  They are equal – NOT interchangeable Ami.

08-28-2006 04:52 PM

Re: Disgusted
khankrumthebulg
Regular Contributor
khankrumthebulg
Feminists changed the Supply and Demand curve when huge numbers of Women entered the Workforce. The Demand for Labor and Nominal Value of it declined. It required two incomes to support a household. Feminism brought this about. Women refuse to face reality. Choice Feminism is the latest incarnation of the Female Gender Entitlement program. It simply states that current Feminism is whatever Women define it as. And if Women want to Work they may do so, if they want to quit work and be supported by a Man they may do so. The problem is when Hubby works the 60-70 hour weeks to support Cupcake she gets bored and gets some attention from the Pool Boy or Butch the Biker.

Worse yet Men are seeing what is happening to Uncles, Brothers, Friends, their Father and saying NO THANKS. What Women did not count on is that Men would eventually say “NEVER LET A FISH USE YOUR BICYCYLE”. We don’t need you either. Women are not an endangered Species. And Men have options as Relationship Consumers. Asia, Latin America, Eastern Europe is full of attractive, kind, and Man appreciative Traditional Women.

American Men make excellent Husbands. And are considered the cream of the crop. While there are abusive Males. Many professional Men are looking for a Traditional Wife. We have choices too and are expressing them. I myself plan to retire ExPat. I am sick of the Gynocracy America has become. Only Women matter here. And what they want. Nuts to that I am voting with my feet. Apparently alot of other Men are too. Real Estate values overseas are doubling in many places.

08-28-2006 04:52 PM

Re: Disgusted
earthlaughs
Contributor
earthlaughs
Just want to say I think that’s the best post I’ve read on this entire forum. And this statment:

Amisoup wrote:Is it really necessary to lump all women, professional or not, into a couple categories?

Excellent point. I think when we start talking about career women, or feminists, or even traditional marriage (my tradition and the next person’s may be very different), that we get into dangerous territory where people start waving their sweeping generalities and favorite stereotypes like flags and wanting to blame others for all their problems.

As I said in another post, I don’t agree with either article, because I think both authors miss the boat on what makes a meaningful relationship or marriage. Trust, love, compassion, compromise, sacrifice, cooperation — none of these are mentioned. Either view is simply selfish and too based in the material world for me to think either person has ever been in a truly loving relationship or would be a good role model for children. Doesn’t Forbes have anyone who can generate an opinion not based in gross materialism — even regarding home and family? No wonder the world’s going to he**. Maybe it’s the business world that’s taking it there, and leaving any sense of humanity or compassion behind.

Message Edited by earthlaughs on 08-29-2006 09:15 PM

08-30-2006 12:01 AM

Re: Disgusted
earthlaughs
Contributor
earthlaughs

khankrumthebulg wrote:Feminists changed the Supply and Demand curve when huge numbers of Women entered the Workforce. The Demand for Labor and Nominal Value of it declined. It required two incomes to support a household.

You have a skewed view of history. Women of lower incomes entered the workforce centuries before feminism demanded equal pay. My grandmother was a postmaster and storekeeper in 1917, when she was 19, and continued to work her entire life. Women had jobs and supported families alone well before that. If the demand for equal pay caused what you’re saying, then what did non-equal pay for those women cause? Poverty for most working women, that’s what, and jobs that weren’t much more than drudgery for most of them.

08-30-2006 12:13 AM

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