Just what the hell do feminists want?


Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – Just what the hell do feminists want?

Just what the hell do feminists want?
Hujo
Contributor
Hujo
Didn’t the lord siths of the second wave seek to abolish the slavery of marriage? I think feminists have come to see who the true slaves are in this arrangement.

The way I figure feminism plays into this is that feminism allowed women to question and analyze their roles in society and evolve beyond traditional settings, while men were not privy to such higher learning and self betterment. This inequality of self-exploration is now a set fixture in academia. You simply cannot critically analyze men’s roles in the past, or our status in the present, in any university, there are no men’s studies courses in this women’s studies nation. We have whole generations born into this inequality of perception that was created by and maintained by man hating second wave feminists with power and influence. Women are raised not to need men and to have faith in themselves and men are still raised to feel like losers for not being successful and having all that comes with success, the hot girl the nice car and the big house, yes some women do capitalize on our dated perceptions of chivalry and success, we don’t know any different and they wont teach us.

Our society is rotten with anti-male double standards, and men are ignored in health and education funding, we are doing worse in these areas, while the women have multiple programs to support them. Our justice system is lenient on women, family courts treat men as cash cows, child support system gives no leniency to honest broke dads and shames them for being poor, our media is completely misandristic thanks to feminisms **bleep** daughter; third wave feminism or “pop feminists”. All the While we teach young women in our university that young *men* have privilege and the system is inherently biased against women, STILL in 2006.

You are free to hate ism’s, and many share the opinion that 2 and 3 wave feminism is anti-male and has created a misandristic system that, yes, has effected women in general in negative ways, as well effecting males very negatively. Analyzing feminisms or casual misandrys effect on women does not mean one hates them,

KUDOS TO FORBES FOR HAVING THE BALLS TO DEFEY BIG SISTER AND PUBLISH SOME TRUTH DESPITE WHAT THE FEMINUTS “GAURDING” THE MEDIA WOULD HAVE US BELIVE!

Men need more articles like this.

Why the hell should men marry women that don’t want a family? That are more likely to cheat and divorce? Its not like this is BS. The Marriage rate is declining, the divorce rate increasing, half of us are cheating and paternity fraud is at an all time high, feminists you made your bed and don’t expect us to sleep in it with you.

A man would be a chump to date a women like this, You don’t like men defining themselves and making their own rules? HA! To bad tolerate it.

Men would do best to avoid misandrists, like women would o best to avoid misogynists.
Its just misandry is a new concept that hasn’t been shoved down our cultural throats by insane man hating feminists, like misogyny has since the 70’s. (Microsoft word doesn’t even recognize the word misandry) I think a lot of people are just offended by even suggesting women could be haters or be violent or bad wives. That is just pc conditioning washing your brain, in real life there are good and bad people. Yet we see by the reaction to this article that feminists would have us believe there are only bad husbands and women are always perfect.

When marriage stops being a societal joke on men I would consider it, till then I am happy dating and not getting serious and NOT spending MY money on women.

Young men would do well to research the family court system, the child support system, and sign a prenup before they marry, as well as have their children’s dna tested. And when single to avoid gold diggers and use their money to better themselves.

Message Edited by Hujo on 08-28-2006 08:40 PM

08-28-2006 08:37 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
placidlake
Contributor
placidlake
Uh, feminists want love? Isn’t that true for everyone?

08-28-2006 08:41 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
Marta2003
Regular Contributor
Marta2003

Hujo wrote:
Why the hell should men marry women that don’t want a family?
I’m pretty sure if career women didn’t want families, this **bleep**storm wouldn’t be nearly as big.

That are more likely to cheat and divorce?
The alternative being women who cannot leave?  I don’t know, sounds to me like you should avoid both types, i.e., find someone who is honest, loyal and will work with you to maintain a marriage without the coercion of economics at her back.  I guarantee, a woman’s income is no measure of her character, any more than a man’s is.

Message Edited by Marta2003 on 08-28-2006 08:43 PM

08-28-2006 08:42 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
porkchops38
Regular Contributor
porkchops38
If feminists want “equal rights” then i want to see all-female combat units on the front lines in Iraq, like now!

Other than that, I don’t care what feminists want, oh but I want some cupcake to make herself useful and fetch me a beer!

08-28-2006 08:52 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
Marta2003
Regular Contributor
Marta2003

porkchops38 wrote:
I want some cupcake to make herself useful and fetch me a beer!
Then go get yourself a woman making less than 35k a year.  I hear there aren’t that many though, so you should hop to it and stop wasting your time here.

08-28-2006 08:56 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
placidlake
Contributor
placidlake
god u guys. don’t u understand the feminist movement is not about ‘equal rights’. it’s simply about the realization of women’s wants and desires, which were surpressed by men back in the day.

women do not want to die in the frontlines. only crazy, adrenaline-seeking men would want to kill people for a profession.

08-28-2006 08:57 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
sunhawk
Regular Contributor
sunhawk
Hujo wrote:
Didn’t the lord siths of the second wave seek to abolish the slavery of marriage? I think feminists have come to see who the true slaves are in this arrangement.

The way I figure feminism plays into this is that feminism allowed women to question and analyze their roles in society and evolve beyond traditional settings, while men were not privy to such higher learning and self betterment. This inequality of self-exploration is now a set fixture in academia. You simply cannot critically analyze men’s roles in the past, or our status in the present, in any university, there are no men’s studies courses in this women’s studies nation.

My friend, those are the “normal” history courses, art history courses and so forth. From experience, majority of art history in academia focuses on male artists, trends and movements of those male artists and evaluating artwork from the perspective of the male gaze or the male-prevalent society of the time. For example, Manet’s painting of “Olympia” (1863) (http://p.giroud.free.fr/manet/olympia.jpg) was considered a social commentary piece because it challanged the predominant male gaze by which paintings were traditionally evaluated. It was a challenge to that society’s views about prostitution and viewers to the Salon at which this painting featured had to be physically restrained to prevent them from actually attacking the painting.

We have whole generations born into this inequality of perception that was created by and maintained by man hating second wave feminists with power and influence. Women are raised not to need men and to have faith in themselves and men are still raised to feel like losers for not being successful and having all that comes with success, the hot girl the nice car and the big house, yes some women do capitalize on our dated perceptions of chivalry and success, we don’t know any different and they wont teach us.

Is that exclusively the responsibility of women or do not other men carry equal responsibility for not taking that narrow expectation apart?

Our society is rotten with anti-male double standards, and men are ignored in health and education funding, we are doing worse in these areas, while the women have multiple programs to support them.

In the area of health, men are their own worst enemies because in the area of visiting the doctor for checkups, women beat them an actual hundred persent. And excluding visits for pregnancy, women still have medical appointments 33% more often than men.

Our justice system is lenient on women, family courts treat men as cash cows, child support system gives no leniency to honest broke dads and shames them for being poor, our media is completely misandristic thanks to feminisms **bleep** daughter; third wave feminism or “pop feminists”.

The flaw is in the legal system in question, in the rigourousness in which it applies the law to each individual situation. I do not see how gender plays into it.

All the While we teach young women in our university that young *men* have privilege and the system is inherently biased against women, STILL in 2006.

Because in some systems and even some countries, third world countries mainly, this is still the case. It’s an ugly truth but it is the truth.

You are free to hate ism’s, and many share the opinion that 2 and 3 wave feminism is anti-male and has created a misandristic system that, yes, has effected women in general in negative ways, as well effecting males very negatively. Analyzing feminisms or casual misandrys effect on women does not mean one hates them,

I certainly agree that feminism should be critically evaulated along with other streams of thought, as long as that criticism is constructive and makes suggestions for improvement.

Men would do best to avoid misandrists, like women would o best to avoid misogynists.
Its just misandry is a new concept that hasn’t been shoved down our cultural throats by insane man hating feminists, like misogyny has since the 70’s.

Some would say it’s not new at all, some people call it tradition That’s a jest, so you know

(Microsoft word doesn’t even recognize the word misandry)

Microsoft word is a pile of crap, don’t rely on it to know any words more complicated than your average vocabulary LOL

I think a lot of people are just offended by even suggesting women could be haters or be violent or bad wives.

In my case, I am merely disturbed to see my own theories about the invisiblity of discrimination to the other gender (yes both male and female) play out so …accurately. I’m also disturbed how both genders are so quick to call names and make hysterical accusations without providing any evidence to back their claims up. There have been exceptions, I must add.

08-28-2006 08:58 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
placidlake
Contributor
placidlake
men are from mars, women from venus, obviously

08-28-2006 09:01 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
zacharias
Regular Contributor
zacharias
“Because in some systems and even some countries, third world countries mainly, this is still the case. It’s an ugly truth but it is the truth.”

So, which third world country do you live in?

08-28-2006 09:03 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
porkchops38
Regular Contributor
porkchops38

Marta2003 wrote:

porkchops38 wrote:
I want some cupcake to make herself useful and fetch me a beer!

Then go get yourself a woman making less than 35k a year.  I hear there aren’t that many though, so you should hop to it and stop wasting your time here.

She’s working right now, and I don’t care what she makes, you think I’m so shallow to pick a woman solely for what her income is?? Gosh, there’s more important things to a sophisticated man like me than how much money a woman makes. Things like a woman’s age, stats, and libido in bed are just a few qualities that a sophisticated man such as myself looks for, I’m not so fitted with a one-tracked shallow mind that all I consider is how much money she makes. However, it is sad that I have to fetch my own beer from time to time, but nobody ever said life is perfect.

08-28-2006 09:04 PM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – Just what the hell do feminists want?

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
placidlake
Contributor
placidlake
oooo, porkchops is sophisticated.

08-28-2006 09:05 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
Hujo
Contributor
Hujo
MARTA-“I’m pretty sure if career women didn’t want families, this **bleep**storm wouldn’t be nearly as big.”

No the **bleep** storm is from feminists that are anti-male to begin with, disliking men having opinions about women that don’t put women on pedestals. They are busy linking this forum to their brainwashed followers. To create a false outcry from “women in general”
http://feministing.com/archives/005609.html

MARTA-“The alternative being women who cannot leave? I don’t know, sounds to me like you should avoid both types, i.e., find someone who i honest, loyal and will work with you to maintain a marriage without the coercion of economics at her back. s I guarantee, a woman’s income is no measure of her character, any more than a man’s is.”

Are you suggesting ALL women are “honest, loyal and will work with you to maintain a marriage without the coercion of economics at her back.” Because they are not, the media has been writing negative male articles about small %es of men being negative non stop, Welcome to equality…if only the feminists will let us have it.

08-28-2006 09:08 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
placidlake
Contributor
placidlake
*sing song*

everyone wants looooooove……. but do we know what love is????

08-28-2006 09:15 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
Marta2003
Regular Contributor
Marta2003

Hujo wrote:
No the **bleep** storm is from feminists that are anti-male to begin with
No, I’m pretty sure that all of the women posting here have explicitly stated that they object to being deemed poor marriage material.  End of story.

Are you suggesting ALL women are “honest, loyal and will work with you to maintain a marriage without the coercion of economics at her back.”
I can’t imagine why you imagine I am.

08-28-2006 09:15 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
placidlake
Contributor
placidlake
I also cannot imagine why marta would imagine why hujo would imagine she is.

08-28-2006 09:17 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
Marta2003
Regular Contributor
Marta2003

08-28-2006 09:21 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
3rdworldwm
Regular Contributor
3rdworldwm

I am from a third world country. My mother had 3 sisters and 3 brothers, all the boys graduated from college and all the girls never set a foot in school – that’s the traditional way there and that’s the way men set. Growing up there as a girl, I was criticized all my childhood and youth that I should not speak my mind and should not have my own thoughts.

I don’t call myself a feminist, but I know what a woman as myself want: freedom to choose for her life and freedom to think for herself. Please respect her passion for building a bridge or skyscraper as same as the passion for having 6 kids.

I thought men in US would be different and most men I met here are. But men in this board really disappointed me.

08-28-2006 09:28 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
placidlake
Contributor
placidlake
don’t worry 3rdworld! not all men are like that. some of us are romantics and want to treat you like the lady you want to be!

08-28-2006 09:30 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
Hujo
Contributor
Hujo
Sunhawk

”My friend, those are the “normal” history courses, art history courses and so forth. From experience, majority of art history in academia focuses on male artists, trends and movements of those male artists and evaluating artwork from the perspective of the male gaze or the male-prevalent society of the time. For example, Manet’s painting of “Olympia” (1863) (http://p.giroud.free.fr/manet/olympia.jpg) was considered a social commentary piece because it challanged the predominant male gaze by which paintings were traditionally evaluated. It was a challenge to that society’s views about prostitution and viewers to the Salon at which this painting featured had to be physically restrained to prevent them from actually attacking the painting.”

Laughable what feminists also tout is that “normal” academia is a selective look at only key elite men that shaped society. I agree. The common men, those that died in wars, that died or crippled themselves at work, those that loved and supported women are not included. While women’s studies focuses on women in general a broad spectrum of class and race. And is totaly feminist in its philosophy. Therefore we create in the minds of young people a false perception; that all men, thruout all time, were elite and oppressing all women. We teach women ONLY to challenge their roles and analyze their oppression while we still have young men dying in wars for a chance to get educated, we still send men to work in jobs that the very air they breath kills them slowly. Women’s studies bettered women, gave them a greater sense of self and identity, while men learn about the elitist and war hungry 2% of elite men thruought time. Please.

” Is that exclusively the responsibility of women or do not other men carry equal responsibility for not taking that narrow expectation apart?”

It is the job of men the first thing we gotta do is spread awareness and who is standing in our way? Feminists in the media, feminists in academia.

”In the area of health, men are their own worst enemies because in the area of visiting the doctor for checkups, women beat them an actual hundred persent. And excluding visits for pregnancy, women still have medical appointments 33% more often than men.”

Right and that we have multiple programs created for women’s health, cancer awareness, fitness and absolutely none for men, even though men are worse off, is NOT discrimination inherent in the system?

http://hottopictalk.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=39
http://hottopictalk.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=28
http://hottopictalk.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=231&sid=ca25490d68a7bd92fd1f170ba03ee8a5

ANd Third wold woman, I agree that parts of the world need help, but instead of hating western men, why not question western feminism being too busy with thier zines and books and womens studies courses, for thier mostly middle to upper class, mostly white university eduacted women to help you.

They like to go where the money is.

Marta, not end of story, try checking the link, it proves my statment.

Message Edited by Hujo on 08-28-2006 09:38 PM

08-28-2006 09:34 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
zacharias
Regular Contributor
zacharias
“I am from a third world country. My mother had 3 sisters and 3 brothers, all the boys graduated from college and all the girls never set a foot in school – that’s the traditional way there and that’s the way men set. ”

Well, I am from the US. None of either of my parents’ generation graduated from college, although all of my parent’s children did. Out of their 5 grandchildren, two girls and one boy went to college, and two boys did not. I suppose that some here would begrudge the one male who got to go to college because none of your mother’s sisters go to.

Message Edited by zacharias on 08-28-2006 09:36 PM

08-28-2006 09:34 PM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – Just what the hell do feminists want?

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
Marta2003
Regular Contributor
Marta2003

zacharias wrote:
I suppose that some here would begrudge the one male who got to go to college because none of your mother’s sisters go to.
I’m quite sure that you suppose wrong.

08-28-2006 09:38 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
placidlake
Contributor
placidlake
3rdworld: girls can’t go to college in my country.

zach: well, i know some boys who didn’t get into college in the US. so there. ’tis fair.

3rdworld: uh… since when did “can’t”==”didn’t get into”

me: hahahaha, so stupid.

08-28-2006 09:38 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
zacharias
Regular Contributor
zacharias
3rdworld: girls can’t go to college in my country.

zach: well, i know some boys who didn’t get into college in the US. so there. ’tis fair.

3rdworld: uh… since when did “can’t”==”didn’t get into”

me: hahahaha, so stupid.

I didn’t say “didn’t get into”

08-28-2006 09:41 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
tomshh
Regular Contributor
tomshh

What feminists want:

The right to vote, but not the repsonsibility to sign up for the military draft.

The right to serve in the military, but not the responsibility to serve in the front lines, and even up causalties.

The right to work in the work force, but only once it has been eased as much as possible, making many American companies have to outsource their departments.

The right to get married, and divorced, and have 75% of the assets afterwards.

The right to get fat, be rude, refuse to cook, dress like a whore, leave a mess everywhere expecting some cleaning service to clean up after them, but then make 50% income of their husbands, and call it “equal”.

The right to never hear “barefoot and in the kitchen”, yet to fight for the right to wear flip flops (barefoot) everywhere, including the white house.

Feminists want it all, and to pay nothing.  Just because this is destroying our society, what is wrong with that?

Why do men still marry USA women?

08-28-2006 09:41 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
toadman
Regular Contributor
toadman

What do true Femmie’s want? Whatever promotes the agenda for “me-me women who have been oppresed since 1920’s Suffrage” personal gain as they are far from the dating gene pool of desireabilty. Most moderate women keep them at arm’s length, including grandma and mom who realize what a clusterf frankenstein they’ve created wanting grandchildren now, especially out of a petri dish. Sorry the 2-gen BS you’ve been fed are archaic bra-burning extremist dinosaurs. Really. It’s not your fault because you never realized otherwise.

08-28-2006 09:41 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
Marta2003
Regular Contributor
Marta2003

Hujo wrote:
Marta, not end of story, try checking the link, it proves my statment.
Your link is besides the point, as your statement was that the reason there was so much controversy here is that us feminists and career girls “hate men” and “don’t want families.”  Every single last woman here has indicated that they are offended primarily at being deemed poor marriage material.  Why would they care if they “hate men” and “don’t want families?”

08-28-2006 09:43 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
zacharias
Regular Contributor
zacharias
“Every single last woman here has indicated that they are offended primarily at being deemed poor marriage material.”

But the men who these women deem poor marriage material are just supposed to suck it up and take it like men, right? If we are offended by such an observation, it is entirely because we are neanderthals who want to keep women chained to the stove barefoot and pregnant, are threatened by strong women, are bitter, and have issues.

08-28-2006 09:48 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
Marta2003
Regular Contributor
Marta2003

zacharias wrote:
But the men who these women deem poor marriage material
Not one woman that I’ve seen here has deemed anyone poor marriage material on such an unsound basis as income.

08-28-2006 09:52 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
Hujo
Contributor
Hujo

Marta2003 wrote:

Hujo wrote:
Marta, not end of story, try checking the link, it proves my statment.

Your link is besides the point, as your statement was that the reason there was so much controversy here is that us feminists and career girls “hate men” and “don’t want families.”  Every single last woman here has indicated that they are offended primarily at being deemed poor marriage material.  Why would they care if they “hate men” and “don’t want families?”

Ha! Because the article MAKES WOMEN LOOK BAD. That equals oppression to them.
Nothing that they do makes logical sense; third wavers are walking blobs of contradiction and double standards.
http://www.hottopictalk.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=1253#1253

Message Edited by Hujo on 08-28-2006 10:00 PM

08-28-2006 09:58 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
placidlake
Contributor
placidlake
except for cassius, screaming her head off about how, in response to the article, she will proclaim that all gals not marry jobless men.

sometimes i wonder if all of the crap on this board is just the product of some natural evolution of the democratic country.

08-28-2006 09:58 PM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – Just what the hell do feminists want?

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
3rdworldwm
Regular Contributor
3rdworldwm

zach:

I guess I did not say it clear enough: My mother and her sisters were not allowed to go to school (even elementary school) because they were girls.

zacharias:
“I am from a third world country. My mother had 3 sisters and 3 brothers, all the boys graduated from college and all the girls never set a foot in school – that’s the traditional way there and that’s the way men set. ”

Well, I am from the US. None of either of my parents’ generation graduated from college, although all of my parent’s children did. Out of their 5 grandchildren, two girls and one boy went to college, and two boys did not. I suppose that some here would begrudge the one male who got to go to college because none of your mother’s sisters go to.

08-28-2006 09:59 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
zacharias
Regular Contributor
zacharias
“Not one woman that I’ve seen here has deemed anyone poor marriage material on such an unsound basis as income.”

Well, it seems you haven’t read all the posts then. And doesn’t it kind of go that the person who is making the decisions gets to decide whether their basis for those decisions is sound or unsound?

You started out with women being offended for not being considered good marriage material, then we go to it is really the UNSOUND BASIS for making that decision which is the problem.

People get to decide based on what is important to them. It really isn’t up to you to tell them that they are right or wrong in what they consider important.

08-28-2006 10:00 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
Marta2003
Regular Contributor
Marta2003

Hujo wrote:
Ha! Because the article MAKES WOMEN LOOK BAD.
No it doesn’t.  It makes people in bad marriages look bad.  Duh.

08-28-2006 10:00 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
zacharias
Regular Contributor
zacharias
zach:

I guess I did not say it clear enough: My mother and her sisters were not allowed to go to school (even elementary school) because they were girls.”

You said it plenty clear. My first comment about third world countries was to a woman who doesn’t live in one. Then you chime in as a woman who did live in one and used your parents generation as an example. Well, my parents generation in THIS country did not attend college, neither the men nor the women, which puts them on par with your aunts and disadvantaged compared to your uncles. How does your experience prove that women are universally disadvantaged compared to men, and that men here are no different than in your country?

08-28-2006 10:04 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
placidlake
Contributor
placidlake
zach, do we need to spell this out?

girls in her country cannot go to college even if they wanted or tried to.

guys in this country can go to college if they wanted or tried to.

there is a difference.

08-28-2006 10:07 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
Marta2003
Regular Contributor
Marta2003

zacharias wrote:
Well, it seems you haven’t read all the posts then.
Find me one.

And doesn’t it kind of go that the person who is making the decisions gets to decide whether their basis for those decisions is sound or unsound?
It’s unsound to claim, on the basis of Mr. Noer’s article, that income is a marker for character, or is an indicator of the likelyhood of divorce.  That is what is being asserted here, over and over again.  And that is what I reject as unsound.

08-28-2006 10:11 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
3rdworldwm
Regular Contributor
3rdworldwm

Thank you, placidlake.

Just want men to understand that women have dreams and passions just as men do; there are good wives/mothers bad wives/mothers just as there are good husbands/fathers bad husbands/fathers – and it has nothing to do with her career choice. Treat others the way you want to be treated and respect others’ choice of life – women or men.

08-28-2006 10:11 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
Hujo
Contributor
Hujo

Marta2003 wrote:

Hujo wrote:
Ha! Because the article MAKES WOMEN LOOK BAD.

No it doesn’t.  It makes people in bad marriages look bad.  Duh.

Right but THEY care because it makes women look bad, CHECK LINKS.(and try to acquire a leg to stand on)

That is why they have their minions here to cry “sexist” and “oppression” at forbs.
(

Forbes; Do NOT let these feminists push you around, keep on telling the unPC truth! As SunHawk says its up to us men. Its about time we say “@#$! what feminism has become, @#$! the “sexist” labels” and reclaimed our voice in the media.

08-28-2006 10:11 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
placidlake
Contributor
placidlake
well put 3rdworldwm!

i like that “women & men” at the end.

08-28-2006 10:14 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
Marta2003
Regular Contributor
Marta2003

Hujo wrote:
Right but THEY care because it makes women look bad, CHECK LINKS.(and try to acquire a leg to stand on)
Who is “they?”  I’m not going to defend all of feminism, as I limited myself to the feminists here for a reason.  I’m sure some sort of feminist idiots are spouting some kind of nonsense somewhere, but I’m here, and talking about the women on this forum.

08-28-2006 10:15 PM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – Just what the hell do feminists want?

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
Hujo
Contributor
Hujo

3rdworldwm wrote:

Thank you, placidlake.

Just want men to understand that women have dreams and passions just as men do; there are good wives/mothers bad wives/mothers just as there are good husbands/fathers bad husbands/fathers – and it has nothing to do with her career choice. Treat others the way you want to be treated and respect others’ choice of life – women or men.

First
This article is taking a first world “western” perspective.

Second
Third world woman,
I agree that in parts of the world women need help as there is indeed inequality, but instead of blaming western men, why not question western feminism being too busy with their zines and books and women’s studies courses, for their mostly middle to upper class, mostly white university educated women to help you.

They like to go where the money is.

Why are you are taking western men to task and not western feminists?

Been reading thier books and zines have you?

Message Edited by Hujo on 08-28-2006 10:19 PM

08-28-2006 10:17 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
placidlake
Contributor
placidlake
haha, is this board seriously still on topic? c’mon, u have to agree that most of us men are bashing feminists at this point. and she’s addressing that, that women’s equality is important even if the feminist movement may seem unappealing to modern men.

08-28-2006 10:20 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
Hujo
Contributor
Hujo

Marta2003 wrote:

Hujo wrote:
Right but THEY care because it makes women look bad, CHECK LINKS.(and try to acquire a leg to stand on)

Who is “they?”  I’m not going to defend all of feminism, as I limited myself to the feminists here for a reason.  I’m sure some sort of feminist idiots are spouting some kind of nonsense somewhere, but I’m here, and talking about the women on this forum.

Whatever Marta, You got nothin.

Go reread our string it might make it clearer to you.

08-28-2006 10:22 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
sunhawk
Regular Contributor
sunhawk

zacharias wrote:
“Because in some systems and even some countries, third world countries mainly, this is still the case. It’s an ugly truth but it is the truth.”

So, which third world country do you live in?

I’m sorry, I don’t recall saying I lived in a third-world country. Are you trying to imply that I cannot speak about places I do not live in?

08-28-2006 10:33 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
placidlake
Contributor
placidlake
hahaha, don’t worry sunhawk.

it’s just zach being confused.

08-28-2006 10:34 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
Marta2003
Regular Contributor
Marta2003

Hujo wrote:
Whatever Marta . . . Go reread our string it might make it clearer to you.
Here it is:

You:  Why the hell should men marry women that don’t want a family?
Me: I’m pretty sure if career women didn’t want families, this **bleep**storm wouldn’t be nearly as big.
You: No the **bleep** storm is from feminists that are anti-male to begin with, disliking men having opinions about women that don’t put women on pedestals. They are busy linking this forum to their brainwashed followers. To create a false outcry from “women in general”http://feministing.com/archives/005609.html
Me:  No, I’m pretty sure that all of the women posting here have explicitly stated that they object to being deemed poor marriage material.  End of story.
You:  Marta, not end of story, try checking the link, it proves my statment.
Me: Your link is besides the point, as your statement was that the reason there was so much controversy here is that us feminists and career girls “hate men” and “don’t want families.”  Every single last woman here has indicated that they are offended primarily at being deemed poor marriage material.  Why would they care if they “hate men” and “don’t want families?”

You made a comment.  I replied to it by restating the opinions of the feminist members here.  You answered by pointing to some other feminists, on some other board.  My final comment above is completely on point.  The only way you possibly could be construed as making sense is if you took my use of the word “**bleep**storm” to mean something other than the exchanges here, which is not how I intended it, as evidenced by my subsequent responses.

08-28-2006 10:35 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
zacharias
Regular Contributor
zacharias
“ach, do we need to spell this out?

girls in her country cannot go to college even if they wanted or tried to.

guys in this country can go to college if they wanted or tried to.

there is a difference.”

Placidlake, do I have to spell THIS out –
the MEN in my family in THIS country could not go to college even if they wanted or tried to, because their parents could not afford it and there was no financial aid available – they had to work.

She was raised in a family which was affluent enough to send not one, not two, but THREE children to college. So, we are talking class differences as well as sex differences. When my old man was working two jobs just to keep a roof over his family’s head, and some food on the table, he would have been quite amazed to hear that he was keeping my mother down by doing so.

Message Edited by zacharias on 08-28-2006 10:40 PM

08-28-2006 10:35 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
placidlake
Contributor
placidlake
i see zach…

but financial incapabilities is different from authoritarian rulings?
one is still more liberating than the other, agreed?

08-28-2006 10:36 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
zacharias
Regular Contributor
zacharias
I’m sorry, I don’t recall saying I lived in a third-world country. Are you trying to imply that I cannot speak about places I do not live in?”

That is there and this is here. As my parents used to tell me about cleaning my plate “There are children starving in India.” So, because of that I was supposed to get fat?

Using women in other parts of the world to justify your own advantage won’t wash with some of us. You may believe it, but others won’t.

08-28-2006 10:39 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
SM777
Regular Contributor
SM777
Well, concerning the original title of this thread, “Just what the hell do feminists want?”, I want my fellow men to know there are a few enlightening articles written by a man with the pseudonym “Joe Blow”.

Gentlemen, do a Google search for: “What Women Want, Who Cares?”

The first four installments of this series are hilarious and very informative.

08-28-2006 10:41 PM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – Just what the hell do feminists want?

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
placidlake
Contributor
placidlake
no zach.

1. the girls in her country cannot go to college because of the authoritarian rules there.

2. the guys in the us cannot go to college (back in the day of course) because of financial incapabilities.

i’m saying the causes of the results are different.

authoritarian rule != financial incapabilities

08-28-2006 10:42 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
Hujo
Contributor
Hujo
Right marta, I feel in my opinion that the **bleep** storm forbes is recieving is more the result of feminist blogs being linked here, this is my opinion and even though i provided proof, you are free to your opinion.

I guess we are done here

08-28-2006 10:44 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
Hujo
Contributor
Hujo
this is not about the third world can we get back on track.

DISTRACTION an old feminist tool when losing an argument

08-28-2006 10:46 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
zacharias
Regular Contributor
zacharias
“It’s unsound to claim, on the basis of Mr. Noer’s article, that income is a marker for character, or is an indicator of the likelyhood of divorce. That is what is being asserted here, over and over again. And that is what I reject as unsound.”

Reject it if you like. There are actually a whole lot of other reasons, this entire shouting match which has ensued from the article being the primary one. But, it really doesn’t matter whether you accept or someone else’s decision about his own life – just as you would not tolerate having to gain someone else’s acceptance of your decisions.

Be that as it may, perhaps you can get a law passed which forces a man to marry you, unless of course you agree that his reasons for not doing so are “sound”, and then again perhaps you can’t. It would be hard to imagine what such a law would look like, but some very strange things have happened over the past few decades.

08-28-2006 10:46 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
zacharias
Regular Contributor
zacharias
‘authoritarian rule != financial incapabilities”

no college == no college

08-28-2006 10:47 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
placidlake
Contributor
placidlake
ah ic! the ends justify the means for you.
but i believe the means are just as important.

just think about it. it would be very different scenario if bush said he wanted to attack iraq for the oil rather than make some big lie about WMD, then our whole outlook on the war would be different.

“attack for oil != lie about WMD”
war == war

08-28-2006 10:49 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
MartianBachelor
Regular Contributor
MartianBachelor

…and sign a prenup before they marry

Even though people often say marriage is a contract, and a prenup would then seem to embody certain important aspects of that contract, I think it’s very important to point out that judges ofter throw out prenups if they’re in conflict with Family Law — or for no real reason at all.

For example, you and your beloved can’t agree to joint physical custody of kids in the event of a divorce if state law tends to give exclusive custody.

So prenups can give a false sense of security. Talk to several lawyers (I can’t believe I’m saying that) to find out what the law is regarding prenups in your state.

______________________________________________
“The loudest, most strident voices calling women weak, stupid, and incapable of competing in the world at large are the feminists.” – zed the zen priest

08-28-2006 10:50 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
sunhawk
Regular Contributor
sunhawk
Hujo wrote:
Sunhawk

Laughable what feminists also tout is that “normal” academia is a selective look at only key elite men that shaped society. I agree.

If you are trying to imply women had any part in chosing to focus on those key elite men, then I find your knowledge of the history of academia rather suspect.

The common men, those that died in wars, that died or crippled themselves at work, those that loved and supported women are not included.

Have you actually taken a history course? Wars are commonly covered and in fact some schools offer history courses specifically about specifics periods of history in terms of wars and revolutions.

While women’s studies focuses on women in general a broad spectrum of class and race. And is totaly feminist in its philosophy. Therefore we create in the minds of young people a false perception; that all men, thruout all time, were elite and oppressing all women.

And you have historical evidence of this? Please feel free to cite your sources.

We teach women ONLY to challenge their roles and analyze their oppression while we still have young men dying in wars for a chance to get educated, we still send men to work in jobs that the very air they breath kills them slowly. Women’s studies bettered women, gave them a greater sense of self and identity, while men learn about the elitist and war hungry 2% of elite men thruought time. Please.

Don’t shoot the messenger, I merely aim to inform you of academia as it has been set up. It started out, and is still thought of by some, as a male-only institution so I find it hard to credit blaming women for the mistakes of other men.

It is the job of men the first thing we gotta do is spread awareness and who is standing in our way? Feminists in the media, feminists in academia.

Why would they stand in your way of redefining male roles to be less aggressive about success and “getting the girl”? It appears that blaming feminists provides a simple solution to you that is in fact a scapegoat, which I understand because you are beginning to know what it feels like to go against the same systems of thought and action that feminists fight against. How ironic.

Right and that we have multiple programs created for women’s health, cancer awareness, fitness and absolutely none for men, even though men are worse off, is NOT discrimination inherent in the system?

None for men? Setting aside non-critical research programs for erectile dysfunction, there have been many notable campaigns for men’s health such as the campaign headed by Spike TV encouraging men to visit their doctors and get a prostate exam. And many programs for health benefit both men AND women, such as AIDS research, cancer research and the programs for various addictions. Is there one area in particular you feel has been left out?

http://hottopictalk.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=39
http://hottopictalk.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=28
http://hottopictalk.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=231&sid=ca25490d68a7bd92fd1f170ba03ee8a5

ANd Third wold woman, I agree that parts of the world need help, but instead of hating western men, why not question western feminism being too busy with thier zines and books and womens studies courses, for thier mostly middle to upper class, mostly white university eduacted women to help you.

That is a big assumption on your part and it is an incorrect one, there are a number of organizations that deal with aiding women in the third world. I refer you to list large list of organizations:

http://www.wougnet.org/Links/africa_int.html

08-28-2006 10:51 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
Marta2003
Regular Contributor
Marta2003

Hujo wrote:
Right marta, I feel in my opinion that the **bleep** storm forbes is recieving is more the result of feminist blogs being linked here, this is my opinion and even though i provided proof, you are free to your opinion.

I guess we are done here
So what if some feminists came here?  When they got here, they all argued what I said they did.  Not that they hate men, or that they don’t want families.

08-28-2006 10:53 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
sunhawk
Regular Contributor
sunhawk

placidlake wrote:
hahaha, don’t worry sunhawk.

it’s just zach being confused.

Yes I noticed this *chuckle* If we were limited to only speaking of things we had direct experience about, maybe some of the men here would stop trying to speak for feminists and women as to what they want *grin*

08-28-2006 11:01 PM

==============================================================================
Click on the board or message subject at the top to return.
Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – Just what the hell do feminists want?

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
placidlake
Contributor
placidlake
darn, but sunhawk, i’m a guy. shoot, i should have chosen a more masculine screenname.

08-28-2006 11:04 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
Hujo
Contributor
Hujo
sunhawk

Women with better health, supported by GOVERNMENT

Men with worse health, supported by spike tv?

You dont see a problem?

Sunhawk there is a mens movment happening right now to adress mens lack of health funding (Links) And to give boys the same attention we gave girls in school decades ago…but who stands in the way?

http://hottopictalk.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=214

http://hottopictalk.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=32

Will pick this up tommorow *yawn*

Message Edited by Hujo on 08-28-2006 11:06 PM

Message Edited by Hujo on 08-28-2006 11:08 PM

08-28-2006 11:04 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
sunhawk
Regular Contributor
sunhawk
That is there and this is here. As my parents used to tell me about cleaning my plate “There are children starving in India.” So, because of that I was supposed to get fat?

Using women in other parts of the world to justify your own advantage won’t wash with some of us. You may believe it, but others won’t.

Good sir, you have taken my original remark completely out of context. I mentioned the fact about third world countries because the OP tried to claim that in 2006 no women are discriminated against or repressed. I don’t understand how repeating a fact gives me some sort of unfair advantage, would you care to explain that?

08-28-2006 11:04 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
sunhawk
Regular Contributor
sunhawk

placidlake wrote:
darn, but sunhawk, i’m a guy. shoot, i should have chosen a more masculine screenname.

I know you are a guy, I’m sorry my comment lead you to believe I was lumping you with those other people because of your gender. I should also have added that there have been women as well who have spoken for men when they do not have any personal experience to draw from. The baseless accusations have come from both genders. But I know for a fact that many men and many women do not reflect the sort of posting I have seen here

08-28-2006 11:07 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
Marta2003
Regular Contributor
Marta2003

zacharias wrote:
Reject it if you like.
It has nothing to do with what I like, but the facts on the page.

There are actually a whole lot of other reasons, this entire shouting match which has ensued from the article being the primary one.
I don’t follow.

But, it really doesn’t matter whether you accept or someone else’s decision about his own life – just as you would not tolerate having to gain someone else’s acceptance of your decisions.
Again, you’re misrepresenting what I said.

Be that as it may, perhaps you can get a law passed which forces a man to marry you,
Don’t need one.  I’m quite the catch, you see.

Message Edited by Marta2003 on 08-28-2006 11:14 PM

08-28-2006 11:09 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
sunhawk
Regular Contributor
sunhawk
sunhawk

Women with better health, supported by GOVERNMENT

Men with worse health, supported by spike tv?

You dont see a problem?

Sunhawk there is a mens movment happening right now to adress mens lack of health funding (Links) And to give boys the same attention we gave girls in school decades ago…but who stands in the way?

The campaign is not solely funded or supported by Spike TV, it is merely advertised by Spike TV. It clearly states in the campaign description: “Partnership with National Medical Association, Men’s Health Network, Charter Communications, Comcast, American Cancer Society, National Prostate Cancer Coalition, American Urological Association, The Dean & Betty Gallo Prostate Cancer Center.”

That’s a LOT of support!

I’m sorry but you will have to provide concrete evidence and cite credible sources because what you are saying doesn’t appear to reflect reality.

08-28-2006 11:11 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
toadman
Regular Contributor
toadman

And how many of those orgs hold fund-raisers, let alone 5-10k runs with extensive media exposure like the Susan G. Komen Breast Cancer Society?

08-28-2006 11:17 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
sunhawk
Regular Contributor
sunhawk
And how many of those orgs hold fund-raisers, let alone 5-10k runs with extensive media exposure like the Susan G. Komen Breast Cancer Society?

So, first the problem was there was no research and no funding for campaigns. Now the problem is that you don’t believe they fund-raise. A rather weak rebuttal IMHO, since it seems unlikely that they don’t fundraise, but I’m willing to indulge you. While I’m doing the legwork (which it would really and sincerely be nice to see some people other than me do) to investigate your claim, can you provide a resource that tells us that they don’t fundraise?

08-28-2006 11:22 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
Hujo
Contributor
Hujo
Or you know you could check my links?

Sunhawk those orgs are gender nuetral.

The one link provided twice shows that in Canada we have 5 different women specific health beurus and NONE for men I would prove the ones for men don’t exist if I could, you try to find it.

In the states you have the same thing bureaus created for addressing women’s health and none for men.

http://www.menshealthoffice.info/media.htm (here is the link again)

There is also a crisis in boys education that feminists are fighting, they are standing in the way of funding.

http://hottopictalk.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=214 (here is the link again)

In Canada There is a government dept that monitors the status of women and writes the book on the status of men they have released publication http://tinyurl.com/cl93u (link again) denouncing that men need health or status funding saying that men are doing fine in school and that mens rights groups are hate groups and should be banned and imprisoned.

http://www.mensnewsdaily.com/archive/s/s-misc/stevenson062303.htm

The point is men are behind in health and education and also behind in scholistic achevment yet we receive the least funding the least specific care, not only that feminists are actively stagnating us.

READ LINKS

Good night.

08-28-2006 11:30 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
sunhawk
Regular Contributor
sunhawk
Alrighty *cracks knuckles* Let’s see here:

American Cancer Society’s Relay for Life:
http://www.acsrelay.org/main.php

“Relay For Life is the signature event of the American Cancer Society and is a team event that promotes survivorship and increases cancer awareness in our community! Across America, there were over 4300 Relay for Life events in 2004!”

National Prostate Cancer Coalition
http://www.fightprostatecancer.org/site/PageServer?pagename=drive_home

“Over 46,000 men have been screened at the Drive Against Prostate Cancer so far, and we’ll be screening thousands more this year.

The Drive provides FREE and CONFIDENTIAL screenings in a friendly environment, where men can have free snacks and watch the game on the big screen TV while they wait. ”

More? Shall i dig deeper? That was just from that list from the Spike-related campaign

08-28-2006 11:30 PM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – Just what the hell do feminists want?

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
Hujo
Contributor
Hujo
Sunhawk. Did you take part in prostate or testicular cancer month lately?

I sure as hell didn’t up here.

Before you go crazy I am talking government funded health programs that are sex specific. Women have em’ men dont.

I should have went to bed… the states does seem to be more on the ball…hmmm less feminists in government equals better men’s health?

Still it would be nice to see a bureau of men’s health in the states to make thing EQUAL no?

Message Edited by Hujo on 08-28-2006 11:54 PM

08-28-2006 11:33 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
sunhawk
Regular Contributor
sunhawk
Hujo wrote:
Or you know you could check my links?

To your messageboard? Why bring us there when you could just as easily copy and paste the links when replying to specific parts of our conversation instead of asking people to try to guess which link is related to which debate point? I find it harder to see how you are making your points when the discussion you have there is not following the conversations of this thread. I’m not trying to downplay your evidence, I just feel it could be presented in a better manner.

Sunhawk those orgs are gender nuetral.

Which means they treat women AND men…. why do you want them excluded?

The one link provided twice shows that in Canada we have 5 different women specific health beurus and NONE for men I would prove the ones for men don’t exist if I could, you try to find it.

Well this isn’t a bureau but it a group based in Vancouver, http://mens.health-info.org/

There is also Circumcision Information Resource Centre Canada
http://infocirc.org/top.htm

In the states you have the same thing bureaus created for addressing women’s health and none for men.

http://www.menshealthoffice.info/media.htm (here is the link again)

I did find that some gender neutral organizations have men-aimed campaigns like the National Institute of Mental Health’s “Real Man Real Depression” program/campaign

http://menanddepression.nimh.nih.gov/

And surely you are familiar with the Lance Amstrong Foundation?

http://www.laf.org/

Other organizations can be checked out here since it would take a while to list them all:

http://www.themenscenter.com/National/national09.htm

There is also a crisis in boys education that feminists are fighting, they are standing in the way of funding.

http://hottopictalk.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=214 (here is the link again)

In Canada There is a government dept that monitors the status of women and writes the book on the status of men they have released publication http://tinyurl.com/cl93u (link again) denouncing that men need health or status funding saying that men are doing fine in school and that mens rights groups are hate groups and should be banned and imprisoned.

You did read the part of that essay where it disclaimered: “The research and publication of this study were funded by Status of Women Canada’s Policy Research Fund of Status of Women Canada. This document expresses the views of the authors and does not necessarily represent the official policy of Status of Women Canada or the Government of Canada.” I am assuming, but that aside can you point out where it specifically says what you are claiming? I can easily read 143 pages but we could all save some time if you could help me out.

http://www.mensnewsdaily.com/archive/s/s-misc/stevenson062303.htm

The point is men are behind in health and education and also behind in scholistic achevment yet we receive the least funding the least specific care, not only that feminists are actively stagnating us.

READ LINKS

Good night.

I can agree with you that i see no constructive purpose to those who act in the extremes of feminism to the point of hate or trying to repress anyone of any demographic, they do not represent me or represent my gender in my opinion.

08-28-2006 11:54 PM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
sunhawk
Regular Contributor
sunhawk
Sunhawk. Did you take part in prostate or testicular cancer month lately?

I sure as hell didn’t up here.

You didn’t, yet you complain of the lack of men-related research/fundraising? Er… why didn’t you?

Before you go crazy I am talking government funded health programs that are sex specific. Women have em’ men dont.

Well you’ve dismissed any organization that deals with both sexes equally so you are eliminating some really useful and successful organizations, so I can see how on your terms there aren’t many such organizations. I hope that at some point you give credit to those gender neutral groups for all the hard work they do that does benefit men as much as women. It’s not a contest right? We just want people to be healthy and well.

I should have went to bed… the states does seem to be more on the ball…hmmm less feminists in government equals better men’s health?

What? Where did you get that from?

Still it would be nice to see a bureau of men’s health in the states to make thing EQUAL no?

I could argue that conventional medicine is pretty male-oriented and that these female organizations are trying to even things out (ironically… again) so it would be redundant for them to call themselves bureau of men’s health – the whole idea of naturalized social habit… ok i can see myself getting tired here, please a little slack, i shall seek my bed as well. I promise I can flesh my thought out more later *chuckle*

08-29-2006 12:00 AM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
Hujo
Contributor
Hujo
Well I edited too late it does seem like the states are more on the health ball but could that have something to do with less feminists in power?

Anyway the links on my board are all at the top before the article is reprinted with the exception of the pdf file that I reposted.

Is there a testicular or prostate cancer moth in the states awareness is the key and the government health bureaus do a lot of pr and awareness spreading for women.

Thanks for not just playing devils advocate and checking links, my eyes are crossing gotta go bed now.

cheers.

08-29-2006 12:00 AM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
toadman
Regular Contributor
toadman

“Just what the hell do feminists want?”  Something far more than just a so far successful cultural turn-around. Something they are quite likely incapable of accomplishing on a global scale,  let alone a single nation.

08-29-2006 12:14 AM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
Hujo
Contributor
Hujo
sunhawk-“I could argue that conventional medicine is pretty male-oriented and that these female organizations are trying to even things out (ironically… again) so it would be redundant for them to call themselves bureau of men’s health”

Men have worse health..um?

That might have been a fair statement 30 years ago or maybe even 15, but we have to look at the now, in the now men are not being looked at as well because we lack government health funding women have. It not a contest but a matter of equality, yes the neutral orgs do good work for men and women but the women’s specific orgs do good work for women, leaving things unequal for men. IN THE NOW

Sooner or later we will realize equality for women has been created (in western nations) and that our policies and our schools and our government and our media are all going to have to change from the pro women, women’s equality, feminist stance and start focusing on humanism egalitarianism and bettering us all.

Message Edited by Hujo on 08-29-2006 12:33 AM

08-29-2006 12:28 AM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
Jet_Jaguar
Contributor
Jet_Jaguar

Um-hm. I’m not a feminist, but… I’ll be happy to graze at the buffet of entitlements. I’m not a feminist, but … I’ll cheerfully take custody of the kids, and the house, and the car when it’s handed to me because of my sex.

Of course, I would be remiss not to mention the Great, “You don’t speak for me, Betty Freidan” and “Gloria Steinem is not my Leader!” rallies of the sixties. Oh, yeah. They never happened.

Well, How could we forget the “Real Equality for All in Family Court” and “Don’t Shaft My Son in My Name” organizations women started in the seventies. Ooops. Yeah. Um. They never formed either, did they? Anti-Paternity Fraud groups? No, none of them either. Hmm. The Protests against women who made false accusations? No, no – none of them either. Well, surely in the eighties we had petitions by women to their congressmen to not expand “Sexual Harassment” to include everything that merely displeased a woman.

Oh. Yeah. None of those, either. Except for Phyllis Schlafly, and a scant few followers, come to think of it, there sure as hell has been a lot of silent complicity in the excesses of feminism for a long, long time, now that you think of it – hasn’t there?

There is a broad picture one looks at when you get hammered by a corrupt system, and sadly, feminists, your sisters, have created a world in which a relationship is a minefield for men, but a gold-mine for women if they are willing to work the system. Too many women take it entirely too personally when we men get tired of playing a rigged game, of being the ones upon whose shoulder falls the responsibility of sorting the wheat from the chaff.

We’re just sick of the spin that the moral and ethical thing for a man to do is whatever makes a woman’s life work for her; and more so, we are sick to death of being told that because we want women to have real equality, which includes all the bad of equality to go with all the good they are unwilling to give up, that we are somehow anti-woman and re-issued feminists.

You want men to take responsibility for their part in all this – collectively, as opposed to individual cases? Excellent. Done. It’s time, then, for women to take a similar collective responsibility – all this damage done by “feminism” has been done by, and at the behest of your sisters. The majority of women stood by and uttered nary a peep while this went on for half a century – and while those who spoke up individually deserve honorable mention, on the whole the collective actions of women were pretty **bleep** pathetic as their fathers, brothers, and sons were being turned into second class citizens and they just watched with pursed lips and really concerned looks but did or said sod all about it.

And if those of us who got splattered when the feces hit the fan want to go off, get a shower, and drink a beer, are saying, “Call us when you clean up the mess” well, it certainly is our right, I’d say.

*Ms. Freewilly won’t be around to truly see what her words helped do….make MILLIONS of American and Western women unfit to marry, date, sleep with or even talk to.

A woman’s greatest enemy isn’t man, it’s time and her fellow woman.

08-29-2006 04:31 AM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
sunhawk
Regular Contributor
sunhawk
OK i’m back now that *my* eyes aren’t crossing anymore heh heh.

In regards to your idea about the States being more on the ball than Canada, I think perhaps it also has something to do with the fact that Canada has a health care system and it’s likely that the sort of services provided by the American men’s health bureau are being provided as a part of basic health care. I’m not a man, so I can’t say for sure what exactly is provided. Heck, even the women’s portions I am uncertain of since I have been mostly in good health in my life and the one time I was in hospital it was not for a gender-specific ailment. My mum works in a hospital and she’s not sure about gender-specific checkups but she thinks OHIP does pay for your basic checkups.

And I would also like to thank you for providing links and arguing your points in a calm manner, it is nice to have a discussion without the other person resorting to snarky remarks every other comment

That might have been a fair statement 30 years ago or maybe even 15, but we have to look at the now, in the now men are not being looked at as well because we lack government health funding women have. It not a contest but a matter of equality, yes the neutral orgs do good work for men and women but the women’s specific orgs do good work for women, leaving things unequal for men. IN THE NOW

OK, so I understand your point, are you saying that the North American governments have diverted money from men’s health research/treatments to fund women’s health research/treatments? If that is the case, do you have some paperwork about the budget shift in question? Because my understanding is that men still receive the same amount of medical attention they generally have enjoyed in the past, but women’s services and funds are trying to match them in effort and money committed.

Sooner or later we will realize equality for women has been created (in western nations) and that our policies and our schools and our government and our media are all going to have to change from the pro women, women’s equality, feminist stance and start focusing on humanism egalitarianism and bettering us all.

By created, are you suggesting that equality between the sexes is not real? I agree that I would prefer equality between the sexes, I don’t subscribe to tipping the balance in either direction. Some feminists are of the mind that heavily favouring women now is OK because of the hundreds of years that men have been favoured, but I don’t think that sort of mentality is helpful or fair. Holding men (or women for that matter) accountable now for the mistakes of their ancestors only breeds mistrust and resentment, as we’ve seen.

08-30-2006 12:11 AM

Re: Just what the hell do feminists want?
Hujo
Contributor
Hujo
OK, so I understand your point, are you saying that the North American governments have diverted money from men’s health research/treatments to fund women’s health research/treatments?

No I am saying men have worse health now, and less funding for agencies that examine men’s health status and address ways to improve men’s health, like the women have, I provided links.

By created, are you suggesting that equality between the sexes is not real?
In terms of rights and opportunities, no.

09-06-2006 12:08 AM

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