What Makes Career Women Poor Marriage Material?


Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – What Makes Career Women Poor Marriage Material?

What Makes Career Women Poor Marriage Material?
warbaby
Regular Contributor
warbaby

Every time I think about what our society has become, I get this image in my head of thousands of gremlins loose in the studio and destroying everything. Remember that movie, “Gremlins”? They were cute little cuddly things – like little living stuffed animals – (I’m thinking they were called mugwai’s – could be a mixed memory lol) and you weren’t supposed to get them wet, and you were NEVER supposed to feed them after midnight. Because if you did, they would start hatching these evil little gremlins who just wrought havoc on everything they could get their hands on.

That’s what feminism reminds me of. Back in the day, men and women had clear roles, which were suited to our biology. Then feminism came along, and convinced us all that we were being oppressed, and it was up to us to kick our men in the balls and start running things our way. Only problem is, we’re built to be nurturers. That’s not to say women can’t accomplish anything – quite the contrary, women have accomplished great things throughout history. Throughout history = before feminism. But, by and large, our biology dictates that we have babies and raise them and keep hearth and home. Sorry, ladies, it’s true.

Now we act the way we are told we are supposed to act, and feel the way we are told we are supposed to feel. It’s not that we aren’t listening to our inner woman anymore – we aren’t even aware she’s in there. But she is. And she’s trying to get out. That’s why modern women are so conflicted and hateful and controlling and, most of all, unhappy and dissatisfied. And all of that bad feeling, coupled with the constant bombardment of messages that men are evil, raping, child-molesting oppressors, and that women are helpless victims on the one hand, and strong, independent ass-kickers on the other, throws the whole thing out of balance.

We’re not oppressed and kept out of the upper echelons of power. I’m gonna let you in on a little secret. You know why we don’t have more women ceo’s and movie moguls and presidents? The answer is simple. MOST WOMEN DON’T WANT THOSE THINGS! That’s right. I said it.

Let me add, for emphasis, MOST WOMEN DON’T WANT THOSE THINGS.

Don’t get me wrong. It’s not that women can’t run Fortune 500 companies, or countries, for that matter. Any fool can learn a skill set. It’s that our biology doesn’t give us the necessary drive. In order to achieve those positions, and hold on to them, you have to be willing to dedicate your life to the purpose.

Think about what that means. Working 100 hours a week. Never seeing your home, much less your family. No time to date. Having your meals delivered to the office. Taking on whatever project has the current priority, whether it’s a **bleep** job or not. Never allowing yourself any real friendships, because everything has to be expendable to the goal. Never getting distracted by little things like having a baby, and a nest. IT MEANS DEDICATING YOUR LIFE TO THE CAREER.

There aren’t many women who have that kind of driving personal ambition. “But”, you say, “what about women doctors and lawyers and politicians? Don’t those careers take an enormous amount of drive to achieve?” Yes, of course they do. But generally people who go into those fields do it because they love it. And of all those women doctors and lawyers and politicians, how many are willing to do what it takes to become the head administrator of the hospital or a senior partner in the firm or the governor of a state? I say not that many. It’s in the biology. If they go after those things, chances are, they won’t have a family. Or the family they have will be strangers to them.

Let me tell you a story about why I know this is true. I got married when I was 22. On my 25th birthday, I remember walking through downtown Portland, on my way to catch the max for my ride home. And it hit me. I literally stopped in my tracks. “Oh my god. I wanted to have 3 kids by the time I was 30, and I just turned 25.” And my life became about getting a job that had medical benefits, then passing my trial service and working long enough so I could be sure the benefits would kick in, then getting off the pill, then systematically having sex with my husband exactly every other night so I would have the best chance of conceiving. I was still 25 when we got pregnant. We waited 4 years between children, and after our second child was born, we opened a daycare so someone else wouldn’t be raising our children. My husband ran it – because I still had that job with the benefits. After that experience, we decided 2 children were enough! But that’s a different story : )

My point is, that’s what women are about. Even lesbians want children.

“But”, you say, “there are women who DO want those things, who have that kind of ambition. We have women hospital administrators, and law firm partners, and governors. There are women who don’t want children, who don’t even like them.” Once again, this is true. But I say these are a minority of women. And of the women who do have this drive, I say the majority of them are doing it because they think that is what they are supposed to do, as “strong, independent women”. They’re fighting that inner woman tooth and nail.And the more they fight, the less content and at peace with themselves they are.

Remember what I said earlier? “That’s why modern women are so conflicted and hateful and controlling and, most of all, unhappy and dissatisfied.” If someone is dissatisfied in themselves, how can they possibly have anything to give to their loved ones? What they bring to a marriage is unbalanced, and will only work if they partner with someone equally as unbalanced – to the other side. And the unbalanced gander is just as unhappy as the unbalanced goose. So they live their lives being miserable, and blaming each other, and not understanding why.

Because that’s what they were told they were supposed to do.

Feminism hurts us all.

08-29-2006 08:11 PM

Re: What Makes Career Women Poor Marriage Material?
Isis
Contributor
Isis
I’m sorry, I reject your dichotomy.

According to what you write, women should only ever have babies and take care of them, and never accomplish anything in the world, whether it be in the fields of architecture or computer science or finance or literature.

and men should only ever work 100 hours a week and never play with their children and never experience emotional intimacy.

this sounds absolutely horrible to me.

08-29-2006 08:28 PM

Re: What Makes Career Women Poor Marriage Material?
AngryMuppet
Regular Contributor
AngryMuppet
You do realize, do you not, the irony of your story, right? Without feminism, I doubt you’d be able to have the job with the benefits while your husband ran the day care. Also, you started having children only when YOU decided it was time. Your personal story IS a feminist story.

And also, I know a lot of women, many of them self-identified feminists. None are hateful and controlling. But the women I know who believe in the “traditional gender roles” thing are. Why is that? Probably because feminism isn’t about control, it’s about liberation. “Roles” are a form of control. Thankfully, you eschewed them yourself. Bravo!

08-29-2006 08:29 PM

Re: What Makes Career Women Poor Marriage Material?
tomshh
Regular Contributor
tomshh
this sounds absolutely horrible to me.
————————————–

This is how life on the earth always has been, and always will be, except in the last 30 years in some very priveldged areas, which are now on their way to self destructing.

What you said is the equal to saying “I can’t believe people eat apples, they are just disgusting, I am suprised it didn’t kill humans”.

08-29-2006 08:30 PM

Re: What Makes Career Women Poor Marriage Material?
Isis
Contributor
Isis

tomshh wrote:
this sounds absolutely horrible to me.
————————————–

This is how life on the earth always has been, and always will be, except in the last 30 years in some very priveldged areas, which are now on their way to self destructing.

What you said is the equal to saying “I can’t believe people eat apples, they are just disgusting, I am suprised it didn’t kill humans”.

How life on earth always has been? Here is how life on earth always has been:

most people died by the age of 40 of disease or injury
most people were malnourished for a good part of their lives.
many women died in childbirth, and/or had a large number of children.

people didn’t have:
cars
airplanes
the Internet
medicine
telephones
reliable birth control
clean running water

Are you saying we should reject those advances as well?

Do you want to reject those advances?

08-29-2006 08:35 PM

Re: What Makes Career Women Poor Marriage Material?
Back2TheKitchen
Regular Contributor
Back2TheKitchen

AngryMuppet wrote:
Probably because feminism isn’t about control, it’s about liberation.

Feminism has done more to liberate men than women.

Think about that.

Excellent post, warbaby.

“With women or the female mindset imparted through feminization on the vast majority of society, it will be very easy to control the Empire…I mean…the republic.” – mirrorofthesoul.blogspot.com

08-29-2006 08:36 PM

Re: What Makes Career Women Poor Marriage Material?
AngryMuppet
Regular Contributor
AngryMuppet

Back2TheKitchen wrote:

AngryMuppet wrote:
Probably because feminism isn’t about control, it’s about liberation.

Feminism has done more to liberate men than women.

Think about that.

Excellent post, warbaby.

Then why do you hate it so?

08-29-2006 08:39 PM

Re: What Makes Career Women Poor Marriage Material?
Miogagh
Visitor
Miogagh
Your science is wrong. There is no evidence…I repeat, NO EVIDIENCE, that there is a innate biological factor in what motivates people in their career and family decisions. The assumptions you make are nothing but stereotypes applied to misguided pop-psycology.

What motivates people in the choices they make, whether to stay home or have a career have to do with the value and structure of society, and what type of environment the person grew up in.

The reality is that MOST people have an innate want for children. Both male and female. It is the structure of society which dictates how those children are made and raised. Most people had their mother as their primary caregiver, many, if not most had a stayat home mom. We associate women and “the feminine” with nurturing and domesticity. Therefor it “feels” natural for women to be the one to stay home to care for children. But simply because it “feels” natural doesn’t serve as evidence that it IS natural. You must take into account that our society is also still structured to have one parent stay at home to care for children. There is no such thing as an extended family, and grandparents rarely expect or are expected to care for their grandchildren during the day.

The truth is, that our prehistoric ancestors, both proto Homo sapiens, and Homo sapien sapiens, had a very different societal structure. And this structure is what we evolve in and from. For most of human history, we lived in small tribal groups. We lived nomadically scavenging/gathering ( I don’t say hunting, because that is a fairly recent development, only about 30,000, and not something that would really reflect itself in our behaivioral evolution) IN order for a group to survive, all adult memebers hadto go and gather food, for themselves and for any dependants. Any group that only allowed men to gather and “work” would have starved. Children stayed behind with the elderly, and the older children for a large part of the day. Then all adults would come back and the entire group would engage in social activity. Men were just as engaged with child rearing as their female counterparts. ( An interesting new finding shows that men will mimic the hormonal shifts, including a production of estrogen and progesterone, of their pregnant wives, which helps them bond emotionally to them immediatly at birth.) And children were few, pregnancy and young children were costly, and women rarely had more than two or three children in her lifetime, she would starve the tribe.

Thusly, ANY work, as it is structured today, is ‘unatural’. Hence the overwhelming amount of MEN unhappy with their jobs, and many turing to “househusbandry”. ( I know several myself, very happy men actually)

Now, I am not against ALL work, though I think it could use some reform. But placing a gender identity upon career choices and themn labeling them as “more natural”, is really just stupid and misinformed. Many, many women are quite happy with having a career. In more in depth studies than the ones cited in Noer’s article, it becomes clear that the majority aof women who are unhappy are having problems with *balance*, not nessicarily the job. And that is the important distinction to make if we aregoing to solve any problems.

Also, I am glad you had a revelation about what made you happy in life. However, you must realise that using personal experiece as “proof” is a logical fallacy. You are merely one piece of very human, very flawed evidence out of 6 billion other pieces. Do not hold up your personal choice as a holy writ regarding ” one’s real, natural, and happy path in life”

08-29-2006 08:49 PM

Re: What Makes Career Women Poor Marriage Material?
Kate71
Newbie
Kate71

That’s what feminism reminds me of. Back in the day, men and women had clear roles, which were suited to our biology.

Ah yes, the mythological golden era…that never existed. It has seemed to become an accepted fact  during the twentieth century, that all good mothers stay at home, and always have done.

This is a myth.

The truth is, the majority of women had to work (usually in low paid mill jobs or menial service) in order to feed their children.

The ‘nuclear’ family was a luxury only the very wealthy could enjoy, and most of these children were packed off to boarding school at six.

08-29-2006 08:58 PM

Re: What Makes Career Women Poor Marriage Material?
tomshh
Regular Contributor
tomshh

Then why do you hate it so?
———————————————-

Because we are men, and we are not selfish, self centered, worried about the next 5 minutes only, like women.

Yes, feminism will hurt women EVEN more than men.

But there is one thing that makes men like myself (Iand the others posting here) HATE feminism.  It DESTROYS societies.  I don’t want to see my home country torn to shreads by a bunch of selfish, self-centered, mindless twits.

08-29-2006 09:06 PM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – What Makes Career Women Poor Marriage Material?

Re: What Makes Career Women Poor Marriage Material?
leeraconteur
Regular Contributor
leeraconteur

You do realize, do you not, the irony of your story, right? Without feminism, I doubt you’d be able to have the job with the benefits while your husband ran the day care.

Another Lie.

Women worked throughout history.  In the U.S. women were weavers and loomers.  In 1850.  Benefits are the result of the U.S. being the sole economy that survived WWII.  In order to lure workers, employers began to permanently institute benefits packages to retain talent.

None of this had one thing to do with Feminism.

Also, you started having children only when YOU decided it was time.

Sometimes I wonder if Femininists have ever read anything that wasn’t vetted by a Women’s Studies (sic) Department.

Prior to ~1963, it was difficult for ANY adult to obtain birth control.  In many counties, in many parts of the country it was flat out illegal to even sell condoms; this includes selling condoms to married men and women.

So couples had children, and both the man and the woman had NO say when, unless they abstained forever, which is hardly something anyone could expect of them.

Your statement also presupposes that women had children against their will – shall we assume you imply that the husband forced himself upon her?

Another Lie.  The occurrence of this is so rare as to be of interest only to invenerate man-haters.  Most men treated their wives with respect.

08-29-2006 09:11 PM

Re: What Makes Career Women Poor Marriage Material?
crella
Regular Contributor
crella
‘Without feminism, I doubt you’d be able to have the job with the benefits while your husband ran the day care. Also, you started having children only when YOU decided it was time. Your personal story IS a feminist story.’

Okay, I’m getting really tired of this bullsh*t. My grandmother, who died in 1989 at 90 years old was a career secratary for the Boston Police Department. She took time off when she had a child, and then my great-grandmother took care of my Dad. My great-grandmother ran her own antique shop from her early 20s till she retired. Schoolteachers were almost all women when I went to elementary school in the 60s. Men have only come into nursing as a career in the past 20 uears or so over protest by women.(Ironic isn’t it?)I know 15 mid-wives all in their 80s who are still delivering kids. 70+ year old female doctors. These women all became doctors , teachers, midwives, nurses in the so-called era of oppression. The facts don’t jibe.Women have always worked! They have always got benefits! You are all deluding yourselves by thinking that you are the only generation that has had careers, that you are heroes somehow. ‘Mememe, wewewe’ my arse.When my generation and the ladies I have mentioned above all die, nothing will be left but revionist feminist history,God help us.

08-29-2006 09:34 PM

Re: What Makes Career Women Poor Marriage Material?
Moonshine
Visitor
Moonshine

Warbaby – good post. It’s nice when people can admit the truth especially when it’s not politically correct.  There are a lot of women out there that do want to be successful in business but there are very few willing to make the sacrifices necessary to be a CEO. Truth is, most of the glass ceiling propaganda is a myth. On face value a woman may make 72 cents for every dollar that a man makes but it you factor in educational degree (you can’t compare a social worker to a scientist, or someone who works at McDonald to a teacher), hours worked and years in a career women make about 98 cents for every dollar a man makes. Many women make choices to have babies, work less stressful job, refuse to move to a new work assignment, or take time off for child rearing. That all factors in to account what a woman earns.  Women have all the abilities to be great CEO’s but many of them chose a work-life balance that makes them happy instead of a lonely, grueling rise to the top.

Even when it comes to doctors, there is statistical evidence that shows women are less likely to make the sacrifices to stay in the business. If you look at graduation rates, it’s obvious that women are smart enough to be doctors. But if you look a the numbers you see that women doctors will practice fewer years then male doctors. It’s one of the reasons we are having a doctor shortage in this country. Fifty percent of the medical school classes for the last 20 years have been female. But women doctors are more likely to change careers, go into research after graduation, work fewer hours, take years off to raise a family or drop out completely.  I applaud their decision to do what’s right for their own well-being.  But, because it’s not politically correct to point out the fact that a female doctor will only average 30 years in practice and work 45 hours a week, while a male doctor will practice for 40 years and average 60 hours a week; we’ve drastically underestimated the number of doctors we need and therefore we have a problem.

We as a society still need to evolve and find a balance between work, family and life. But we need to stop crucifying people state the facts just because it conflicts with the way we want the world to be.

08-29-2006 10:20 PM

Re: What Makes Career Women Poor Marriage Material?
SM777
Regular Contributor
SM777
“And also, I know a lot of women, many of them self-identified feminists. None are hateful and controlling.”
————————————————————

None of them are hateful and controlling to other women, but, when men are brought into the picture these same women turn into Ogres, Trolls and then usually get fat.

“AngryMuppet” – This must explain your permanent state of mind. Bad childhood? Must be the fault of “all” men “everywhere”.

08-29-2006 10:43 PM

Re: What Makes Career Women Poor Marriage Material?
PatriarchVerlch
Regular Contributor
PatriarchVerlch

The truth is Kate, you are bad at history and math.

Only about 10% of women worked outside the home 100 years ago, out of necessity. Because they were dirt poor. Women gradually increased in the job market until WWII then about 1/3 of women worked. Wealthy upper middle class women wanted to put more women to work, so then that happened. Now 2/3rds of women work, 10% of men are offset by women working, the other 1/3 of women that do not work, are good looking enough to have wealthy husbands.

Read this:

If you women continue to demand your choice to work, you will so upset the economy of this country that the time will come when you will not have a choice. You will have to work.”~ Helen Andelin of Fascinating Womanhood.

My comments to the above quote are this. Our women have flooded the market with their labor, devalued the once prestigious college degree, lowered the working man’s wages. Now only 15% of our income is disposable, in the 50’s 70% was disposable. Marxist women, with socialist despotic dreams, have upset the economy of this nation.

and this:

I am most anxious to enlist every-one who can speak or write to join in checking this mad, wicked folly of ‘Women’s Rights,’ with all its attendant horrors, on which her poor feeble sex is bent, forgetting every sense of womanly feelings and proprietary. Feminists ought to get a good whipping. Were woman to ‘unsex’ them-selves by claiming equality with men, they would become the most hateful, heathen and disgusting of beings and would surely perish without male pro-tection.”— Queen Victoria, March, 1870

This woman saw something coming!!! Feminagges, you had to see this coming. Our fathers built this nation, and we are not about to let you destroy it. I think 50 million abortions are enough to prove our points. Remember it took women only 52 years from the time they garnered their own vote, until they started the 3,000 a day slaughter of the unborn, 50 million unborn humans murdered in the name of a pin and a cubicle. Sex and Unborn baby living in the City.

Women have been proving for the last 30 years that men have been right for the last 30 centuries!
http://www.verlch.blogspot.com

08-30-2006 03:16 AM

Re: What Makes Career Women Poor Marriage Material?
HappyMom
Regular Contributor
HappyMom
Great posts warbaby and Patriach.

Feminism made a bunch of false promises and instead has left women out in the rain.

It is a lie that feminism is about promotoing ‘women’s rights’, as though these are fundamentally different from those of anyone else.

Warn your daughters before they fall into the same trap.

Feminism is nothing short of socialism. It benefits a select few, elite, unfemine ‘women.’ Woe unto you if you stand in their way.

08-30-2006 11:51 AM

Re: What Makes Career Women Poor Marriage Material?
zacharias
Regular Contributor
zacharias
“Feminism made a bunch of false promises and instead has left women out in the rain.

It is a lie that feminism is about promotoing ‘women’s rights’, as though these are fundamentally different from those of anyone else.”

Well said, HappyMom. The truly sad part of all this is that I was of the generation which came of age along with feminism. Hey, most of us were quite willing to be “fair”, the old male role had its downsides too.

What none of us counted on was women turning on us and attacking us for everything we did, everything we said, and every way in which we were not exactly like women.

Most of this goes back to the monstrous lie that “gender is just a social construct.” Sex is a biological reality and no number of explosive hissy fits by feminists will change that.

The mating dance is no different today than it ever has been – women attract men’s attention, and men pursue. What has changed is that women now have the legal hammer of “sex-yule her-ass-mint” to clobber any man whose attention they do attract when they cast their large nets, who doesn’t meet their standards.

The hostility and attacks which have characterized the responses of women on this board are what has become characteristic of American womanhood – histrionic, belligerent, contemptous of men and everything male. And, now that men have become sick of it, the only response is to intensify the attacks and drive even more men away even faster.

The most bizarre part is how women assume that any suggestion at all that they might not be omnipotent, perfect, and that their choices might actually have some bearing on their life circumstances is always polarized into some neanderthal man wanting to enslave them.

Thus, the dialogue which might actually bring men and women back together gets silenced.

Quite the opposite in my case, I totally support women having careers and supporting themselves – that takes the burden off of me to support them. The end result, however, is that men and women end up having basically nothing to offer each other that they cannot get other places.

If I have to turn my home partnership into the same sort of competition and perpetual threat of loss which I have at work, then it becomes something to avoid rather than seek. I now work barely more than half the number of hours that I used to when I was “oppressing” a woman into living expense free on the fruits of my labors.

Thanks for the liberation, grrls. You have demanded your place in my old prison of wage slavery. My needs are quite simple, so you have given me a priceless gift – many hours per week to spend as I choose, instead of dedicating it to the service of someone else’s needs – someone who is perpetually ungrateful for what I do for her, and a bottomless pit of needs into which everything disappears no matter how much I try to put into it.

I hope career women enjoy their careers and find them satisfying enough to be worth all the hatred and bashing they have poured on men for the past 4 decades.

08-30-2006 12:48 PM

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