A question for the career women.


Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – A question for the career women.

A question for the career women.
jimp
Contributor
jimp
Ladies,

Say you take a sample of 100 30-40 year old men in the U.S. who are not lazy or stupid, that have a college education, and make a very comfortable living (between 200 and 500K a year) and present them with the following choice:

A. A 33 year old U.S. career woman, fairly good looking, but already getting some wrinkles and fat, fairly intelligent, but no Hedy Lamarr, who basically believes that a husband should share in the housework, cooking, cleaning, changing diapers, etc.

B. A 21 year old drop-dead gorgeous model from Belarus that graduated top of her class at the University and is much better read and smarter than the U.S. career woman and firmly believes that it is the huband’s role to provide the money, but the wife has to cook, clean, and take care of the kids.

Be honest, what percentage of the men do you think would choose A over B?

09-09-2006 01:31 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
PANDORASBOX123
Regular Contributor
PANDORASBOX123

(Jimp—read it this way—what do you think?)

Gentlemen,

Say you take a sample of 100 30-40 year old women in the U.S. who are not lazy or stupid, that have a college education, and make a very comfortable living (between 200 and 500K a year) and present them with the following choice:

A. A 33 year old U.S. career man, fairly good looking, but already getting some wrinkles and fat, fairly intelligent, but no Robert Redford, who basically believes that a wife should share in the housework, cooking, cleaning, changing diapers, etc.

B. A 21 year old drop-dead handsome model from Belarus that graduated top of his class at the University and is much better read and smarter than the U.S. career man and firmly believes that it is the wife’s role to provide the money, but the husband has to cook, clean, and take care of the kids.

Be honest, what percentage of the women do you think would choose A over B?

Jimp—which do you think we will pick?

09-09-2006 02:27 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
jimp
Contributor
jimp

PANDORASBOX123 wrote:
(Jimp—read it this way—what do you think?)

Gentlemen,

Say you take a sample of 100 30-40 year old women in the U.S. who are not lazy or stupid, that have a college education, and make a very comfortable living (between 200 and 500K a year) and present them with the following choice:

A. A 33 year old U.S. career man, fairly good looking, but already getting some wrinkles and fat, fairly intelligent, but no Robert Redford, who basically believes that a wife should share in the housework, cooking, cleaning, changing diapers, etc.

B. A 21 year old drop-dead handsome model from Belarus that graduated top of his class at the University and is much better read and smarter than the U.S. career man and firmly believes that it is the wife’s role to provide the money, but the husband has to cook, clean, and take care of the kids.

Be honest, what percentage of the women do you think would choose A over B?

Jimp—which do you think we will pick?

Well, I’m glad you’ve asked me this. I don’t need to think about, I KNOW what the answer is.

In Belarus, A would have a wife, a mistress, and a couple of girl-friends that he cheats on his wife with. No woman in Belarus would want to marry B, but many would have sex with him, ULESSS they were in a relationship with A. B would be scared **bleep**less to go anywhere near A’s women because if A found out B was sleeping with any of them, he would either have his body-guards break every bone in B’s body, or if he was feeling really pissed-off, A would ask the local chief of police to send B to prison for 30 years on a fabricated charge of raping 10 year old boys.

I’m not saying that A’s women would never cheat on A, they would, but only with another A.

09-09-2006 02:46 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
jimp
Contributor
jimp
By the way, I brought up Hedy Lamarr not because she was an actress, but because she was very intelligent, she invented frequency-hopping which was used in communcation systems for radio-guided torpedoes during WWII. What did Robert Redford ever invent?

09-09-2006 02:55 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
hero
Contributor
hero

Dream on Pandora!! The difference is that your scenario is never going to happen, while jimp’s happens all the time!

09-09-2006 02:57 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
porkchops38
Regular Contributor
porkchops38

PANDORASBOX123 wrote:
(Jimp—read it this way—what do you think?)

Gentlemen,

Say you take a sample of 100 30-40 year old women in the U.S. who are not lazy or stupid, that have a college education, and make a very comfortable living (between 200 and 500K a year) and present them with the following choice:

A. A 33 year old U.S. career man, fairly good looking, but already getting some wrinkles and fat, fairly intelligent, but no Robert Redford, who basically believes that a wife should share in the housework, cooking, cleaning, changing diapers, etc.

B. A 21 year old drop-dead handsome model from Belarus that graduated top of his class at the University and is much better read and smarter than the U.S. career man and firmly believes that it is the wife’s role to provide the money, but the husband has to cook, clean, and take care of the kids.

Be honest, what percentage of the women do you think would choose A over B?

Jimp—which do you think we will pick?

“A” doesn’t exist in real life, because “A” would never marry a woman who expects him sire children with her and yet still cook, clean, and change diapers for his wife.

“B” does exist in real life, but they are called “butlers” in America, not “husbands”.

09-09-2006 03:06 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
Freeyourself
Regular Contributor
Freeyourself

hero wrote:
Dream on Pandora!! The difference is that your scenario is never going to happen, while jimp’s happens all the time!

No kidding what is Pandora smoking or sniffing?

09-09-2006 03:07 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
PANDORASBOX123
Regular Contributor
PANDORASBOX123

Last Updated: Thursday, 26 January 2006, 22:55 GMT
E-mail this to a friend Printable version
Filthy rich and female
By Phillip Kemp
BBC Money Programme

–From BBC

There are now more women millionaires aged between 18 and 44 than men, according to figures from the Inland Revenue.

The Money Programme decided to track some of them down to find out the secrets of their success.

Dawn Gibbins
Dawn Gibbins believes atmosphere is all in a successful firm

As a whole, it’s estimated that women currently own 48% of the nation’s personal wealth but this is predicted to rise to 60% by 2025.

Quick to take advantage of this trend has been Nicola Horlick, who earned the nickname “Superwoman” by balancing a top city job with the demands of a family of five children.

In November 2005, she launched Bramdiva, a financial advisory service targeted at women with assets of a million pounds or more.

She says women are now making it on their own terms in business, in a way that they couldn’t when she first started working in the city in the 1980s.

09-09-2006 05:53 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
jimp
Contributor
jimp
From the same article:

Philip Beresford, the man responsible for compiling the annual ranking, has identified another trend, however, which may worry some of the married men on his list.

“Divorce is the hot new growth area for women making money,” he says.

“In the last year we’ve seen half a dozen very big and very expensive divorce actions and given divorce rates in this country and given the accumulation of wealth overall by millionaires, I suspect this may be an even more lucrative area.”

Sandra Davis, who worked on the big money divorce settlement between the Prince and Princess of Wales, says the case of White vs. White means that women can now usually expect to be awarded half of a couple’s assets.

“I think that there is an investment opportunity in a short marriage,” she says. “There has been no shortage of people getting a divorce.”

One recent case that made the headlines was that of Mr and Mrs Miller, who split after just three years of marriage. In April 2005, Mrs Miller was awarded five million pounds by the High Court, equivalent to £5,000 a day. Mr Miller has since been given leave to appeal to the House of Lords against the decision.

09-09-2006 06:13 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
PANDORASBOX123
Regular Contributor
PANDORASBOX123

Female entrepreneurship is one of the greatest success stories of our time. Woman today control just under half of all small businesses in America. Women are starting businesses faster than men and are growing them faster. The question is, are you getting your share?

Why the surge in Femalepreners?

. Woman are better educated and have more corporate experience than ever before.

. Women enrolled in college now outnumber men.

. Women are not as complaining about the glass ceiling in corporate America as much anymore, they are building their own house.

Tenacity also has been identified as one of the factors contributing towards the growth of business within these female owned companies.

Thomas J. Stanley, author of Millionaire Women Next Door: The Many Journeys of Successful American Businesswomen, has studied 1165 self made female millionaires and says that their defining characteristic is perseverance. They’re also more goal-oriented, more fastidious budgeters and more frugal. They are also not afraid to ask for help or seek continuous learning.

Technology has helped level the playing field for women. Business now is much more global than the internet has opened up the world to the point where you don’t have to be part of the old boys club anymore to succeed.

People, who are skilled at building new relationships, also have an edge in business and that includes most women.

09-09-2006 06:14 PM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – A question for the career women.

Re: A question for the career women.
jimp
Contributor
jimp
No-one said that women don’t make money on their-own. It’s just that men marrying rich women and divorcing them 3 years later is not a “growth industry”, and few, if any men make money that way.

09-09-2006 06:27 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
PANDORASBOX123
Regular Contributor
PANDORASBOX123

By Susan Palmquist | Contributor to The Christian Science Monitor

Britain has long been known as a friendly place for high-achieving women. It’s had a female prime minister, Margaret Thatcher, and Queen Elizabeth II has ruled for 52 years. Now there’s a new milestone: For the first time women make up a larger part of the wealthy population than their male counterparts.
The country has 299,300 women with £200,000 (about $363,800) or more in liquid assets – cash, shares, and bonds – compared with 271,700 men.

That means that women make up about 52 percent of the wealthy population in Britain, versus 47 percent for men. And their numbers have been steadily increasing since the late 1990s: The number of affluent women rose from 231,000 in 1997 to 272,000 in 2002.

Observers say there are several reasons behind the trend – women moving into careers with higher salaries, starting their own businesses, and investing wisely, and more equitable division of inheritances. They also hint that in the United States, women may also overtake men in terms of wealth.

“I think there are a couple of reasons why women are becoming wealthier in Britain,” says Anne Brookes of Coutts, a private bank owned by the Royal Bank of Scotland. “Firstly, there’s been a change in the traditional role of women overall – they have more of a desire for independence. And there’s greater equality in the professions like law and banking.”

“Women are increasingly commanding higher salaries and accumulating wealth throughout their careers,” says Oliver Guirdham, a financial analyst with Datamonitor PLC, a business-information company, and author of a report on Britain’s wealthy citizens.

About 26 percent of all British businesses are female-owned, and women are running some of the more successful businesses in the country.

“Demographics also play a major role in the number of high net-worth women,” says Mr. Guirdham, who notes that 53 percent of the affluent are over 65. Women make up a large proportion of this demographic group…. Spousal inheritance also becomes an important factor.”

Family wealth is no longer handed down just to the male members of a family, but is now being divided equally between siblings of both sexes.

Another factor is that high-earning individuals will often share assets with their partners in order to mitigate taxes, which means women may appear to have more money than they actually do, Guirdham points out.

But many British women are also reaping big rewards from investment in the stock market. “Women in general are more conservative in the way they invest,” says Guirdham. “They often choose nontech stocks, which didn’t lose as much value in the recent stock market downturn. By investing wisely, women’s equity tends to be better protected.”

With women in Britain doing so well financially, could their American counterparts be close to matching their success?

“I definitely think so,” says Leslie Grossman, founder and president of the Women’s Leadership Exchange, which helps women expand their businesses. “Women in the US are growing bigger and bigger businesses, million-dollar-plus companies, and at a faster rate than men.”

According to Ms. Grossman, one in 11 women in America now owns a business, and women-owned companies with 100 or more employees saw a growth rate of 44 percent between 1997 and 2000. Million-dollar revenues for businesses owned by women grew 32 percent during the same period.

“Both figures were twice the rate of comparably-sized firms, which is a polite way of saying twice the rate of companies owned by men,” adds Grossman.

From 1996 to 1998, the number of affluent US women increased by 68 percent, compared to a 36 percent increase for men, according to Spectrum Marketing Research in San Francisco.

There’s another trend that could create additional female millionaires: More women are opting to leave corporate America to start their own ventures.

“Ironically,” says Pam Little, editor of WomensWallStreet.com, “although many women have left their corporate jobs for family reasons, they have in turn developed extremely successful businesses or products, and are now rolling in the cash…. We can expect to see many more women in the US receiving their millionaire badge very soon.”

Like their British counterparts, many women in the US are increasing their wealth through careful, long-term investment in the stock market.

09-09-2006 06:28 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
PANDORASBOX123
Regular Contributor
PANDORASBOX123

No-one said that women don’t make money on their-own.

You haven’t said that—but others here have

09-09-2006 06:35 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
PatriarchVerlch
Regular Contributor
PatriarchVerlch

With that Revelation, let us do away with child support and alimony.

As women are wealthier and better off than men now. Thank you for proving my point.

Women have been proving for the last 30 years that men have been right for the last 30 centuries!
http://www.verlch.blogspot.com

09-09-2006 06:50 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
PatriarchVerlch
Regular Contributor
PatriarchVerlch

There are 10 million women owned businesses. Only 250,000 of which earn 500,000 or more.

Women have been proving for the last 30 years that men have been right for the last 30 centuries!
http://www.verlch.blogspot.com

09-09-2006 06:53 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
porkchops38
Regular Contributor
porkchops38

PANDORASBOX123 wrote:
Female entrepreneurship is one of the greatest success stories of our time. Woman today control just under half of all small businesses in America. Women are starting businesses faster than men and are growing them faster. The question is, are you getting your share?

Why the surge in Femalepreners?

. Woman are better educated and have more corporate experience than ever before.

. Women enrolled in college now outnumber men.

. Women are not as complaining about the glass ceiling in corporate America as much anymore, they are building their own house.

Tenacity also has been identified as one of the factors contributing towards the growth of business within these female owned companies.

Thomas J. Stanley, author of Millionaire Women Next Door: The Many Journeys of Successful American Businesswomen, has studied 1165 self made female millionaires and says that their defining characteristic is perseverance. They’re also more goal-oriented, more fastidious budgeters and more frugal. They are also not afraid to ask for help or seek continuous learning.

Technology has helped level the playing field for women. Business now is much more global than the internet has opened up the world to the point where you don’t have to be part of the old boys club anymore to succeed.

People, who are skilled at building new relationships, also have an edge in business and that includes most women.

It’s all hogwash. Women haven’t worked hard for a single penny — it’s all given to women under the guise of “equality”. I’ve been rejected for SBA low interest loans because I don’t have a **bleep**. Vaginas get special low-interest loans from the SBA to start small-businesses, so it’s all hogwash. The deck is stacked against men in America, and then you tout the alleged “success” of female-led enterprises as if that’s symbolic of something good? No, it’s simply symbolic of women getting everything handed to them on a silver platter while men like me have to make it on our own, so that’s hardly “equality”. It’s nothing but special priviledges for women and discrimation against men, hardly worth cheering about unless you’re a fascist communist who doesn’t believe in the free-enterprise system which awards success on the basis of results and not on the basis of whether you have a **bleep** so you can get a low-interest SBA loan. So long as one woman in America gets special low interest loans from the SBA, and so long as one female-led enterprise gets one contract simply because of her **bleep** — then all the alleged “success” stories of female-led enterprises in America are complete hogwash, and that’s the bottom line. With this female stupidity in the west, it’s no wonder why Asia (China, Japan, Korea) is on the path of owning the whole world.

09-09-2006 07:07 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
ACatInSD
Regular Contributor
ACatInSD

jimp, your question is funny, just like a frog sitting at the bottom of a well and looking at the sky and sighed: wow, so big…

My question here is that how many men in the US could make 200K-500K? If all of them choose answer B, then how much percentage of them compared to all men in this contry?

About those men who doesn’t make as much as even over 100K, they would rather choose a career woman, so that he won’t feel that stressed. All my male friends and co-workers who are married or in a relationship choose career women. I would like to know why what I have seen is so opposite from what I have heard, from Mike Noer, and from you guys on this forum.

I asked my boyfriend what if I decide to be a house wife. His answer is “Oh that would be a pain in my butt”. By the way, he makes 280K now.

It would be foolish to discuss your question further, since it only considers a very small portion of people, cannot represent the majority at all.

I hope with your IQ you would understand my point.

09-09-2006 09:52 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
MartianBachelor
Regular Contributor
MartianBachelor
“…Spousal inheritance also becomes an important factor.”

This is not exactly news, as you can find references decades old about the wealth of the country being in the hands of widows, the old girls club. Since women have outlived men for some time, it follows naturally that surviving wives will come into some wealth. About all it proves is that they married well, and stayed married. So their numbers will decrease as the old generation dies off and is replaced by the new, improved, divorcing generation, who take their’s up front rather than as a lump sum at the end.

“Women in general are more conservative in the way they invest… By investing wisely, women’s equity tends to be better protected.”

That’s a pretty inane and biased, if flattering, statement (“conservative” = “wise”. Could we say that all those conservative women look unwise when the market takes an upturn and they’re left with stodgey stocks that aren’t doing much while others are banking big bucks? I guess they thought it would go over women’s head to start talking about risk/reward ratios and other such measures which require numbers. Protection is what matters most because they don’t know how to make back any money they might lose; and it costs them by giving them lesser returns.

“…I would like to know why what I have seen is so opposite from what I have heard, from Mike Noer, and from you guys on this forum.”

Because of what your reaction would be if the truth slipped out?

______________________________________________
“The loudest, most strident voices calling women weak, stupid, and incapable of competing in the world at large are the feminists.” – zed the zen priest

09-09-2006 10:44 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
PatriarchVerlch
Regular Contributor
PatriarchVerlch

Cat Lady, i think your IQ is on overdrive past the single digits. Most men do not have a choice in choosing a career women or not with 69% of all women working.

The 31% of women who do not work, were good looking enough to have married rich men.

The rest of you ladies have upset the economy so much, there is not a choice but for you to have to work. So enjoy your choice. Oh yeah, and 75% of that 69% percent of women that do work, work in poverty wage jobs. So ooohhh la lahhh, thank you feminism. These women would be better off at home, caring for their families.

Message Edited by PatriarchVerlch on 09-09-2006 11:17 PM

Women have been proving for the last 30 years that men have been right for the last 30 centuries!
http://www.verlch.blogspot.com

09-09-2006 11:16 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
ACatInSD
Regular Contributor
ACatInSD

I really don’t see your IQ is higher.

Those women who work for minimum wage are not called career women. With those little money they are struggling to survive. If they don’t work, they will get starved or live on welfare which most of them feel ashamed of.

And, if they don’t work to support themselves, how many of you would like to marry them and hence “rescue” them?

Or, are you saying here that all those women should die at home with no job or husbands like you guys?

I really question your intention here.

09-09-2006 11:38 PM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – A question for the career women.

Re: A question for the career women.
PatriarchVerlch
Regular Contributor
PatriarchVerlch

I really don’t see your IQ is higher.

On average men are 5 points higher than women.

In the IQ range of those with IQ’s over 170 there are 13 men to 1 women. Those with IQ’s of 155, there are 5 men for every 1 woman.

Men have larger brains, bigger areas of the brain for visual, spatial, areas to excel in.

There are also quit a few more men at the bottom. Than women, we slightly outnumber you at the bottom.

The million dollar question is begging to be answered, why are we empowering the middle of the pack, women?

Women have been proving for the last 30 years that men have been right for the last 30 centuries!
http://www.verlch.blogspot.com

09-10-2006 12:39 AM

Re: A question for the career women.
ACatInSD
Regular Contributor
ACatInSD

Yes, generally. But this won’t answer my questions to you.

East Asian has the highest IQ, according to British doctors’ research. FYI.

09-10-2006 01:19 AM

Re: A question for the career women.
PatriarchVerlch
Regular Contributor
PatriarchVerlch

What study was that done by a Chinese American?

Actually, the one I read the Caucasians in general have an IQ 5 points higher than the Asians. With Jews having the highest IQ’s in the world.

So, Yoko Ono, that’s what I think.

Women have been proving for the last 30 years that men have been right for the last 30 centuries!
http://www.verlch.blogspot.com

09-10-2006 02:26 AM

Re: A question for the career women.
Happy_Bullet
Regular Contributor
Happy_Bullet

ACatInSD Wrote:

I would like to know why what I have seen is so opposite from what I have heard, from Mike Noer, and from you guys on this forum.

BECAUSE YOU ARE FROM ANOTHER COUNTRY

Geezus! Do you understand why some of these guys are frustrated with you?!

Men have standards. Women will be compared. DEAL WITH IT.

09-10-2006 09:44 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
ACatInSD
Regular Contributor
ACatInSD

I don’t. I am frustrated too.

Maybe my class is not low enough to go through whatever they have. They have bad experiences with bad women, but, hell, they chose the wrong women right? why blame the others, not themselves?

09-10-2006 11:07 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
Happy_Bullet
Regular Contributor
Happy_Bullet

They have bad experiences with bad women, but, hell, they chose the wrong women right? why blame the others, not themselves?

Taking action to avoid the wrong women, and advising one another on the correct choices to make is precisely what is going on here.

Men have standards. Women will be compared. DEAL WITH IT.

09-11-2006 02:38 AM

Re: A question for the career women.
acrawfield
Regular Contributor
acrawfield

the problem is, you’re advising each other on how to choose the “right woman” based on silly generalizations. for example, I dated a med student 4 or 5 years ago, and he was a boring, self-absorbed douchebag, as were most of his med student friends. thus, I decided no more med students for me.

so predictably, the guy I ended up falling for a few years later, and plan to spend the rest of my life with, is a med student. and if I’d stuck by my well-founded stereotype, I would’ve missed out on an awesome guy.

it just seems like the more self-imposed restrictions you come up with, the more potentially great relationships you rule out.

09-11-2006 01:00 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
HSC
Contributor
HSC

It seems that overall the men want to have June Cleaver for their wife. Which is fine.

I agree that making a blanket statement like all career women are bad choices for marriage is not doing the men any service. You could miss that right person.

09-11-2006 01:32 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
porkchops38
Regular Contributor
porkchops38

HSC wrote:

It seems that overall the men want to have June Cleaver for their wife. Which is fine.

I agree that making a blanket statement like all career women are bad choices for marriage is not doing the men any service. You could miss that right person.

The problem in your thinking such as “you could miss that right person” is that is woman thinking. Men like to take risks, but wise men only take calculated risks. If I never go to Las Vegas, I could “miss that huge jackpot” that someone is winning everyday, but let’s not mention how much I’d have to loose before I even got a mathematical chance to win that huge jackpot. I don’t gamble. I don’t play games where every game has odds in the favor of the house. I don’t get married when the odds are in favor of divorce and the odds are 7 out of 10 that my theoretical wife would initiate that divorce. It’s not about the game, it’s about the odds, and I don’t take such huge risks for such little possibile reward.

09-11-2006 03:00 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
acrawfield
Regular Contributor
acrawfield

you’re entirely missing the point. love isn’t a game of chance, and “odds” don’t apply to it, because you have a certain amount of control over your personal relationships. it’s not like you’re blindly picking a woman out of a hat… you decide who you date and who you marry, so really, it’s not up to chance. it’s up to you. if you just have poor taste, well then, I don’t know what to tell you.

09-11-2006 04:03 PM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – A question for the career women.

Re: A question for the career women.
tellafriend
Regular Contributor
tellafriend

acrawfield wrote:
you’re entirely missing the point. love isn’t a game of chance, and “odds” don’t apply to it, because you have a certain amount of control over your personal relationships. it’s not like you’re blindly picking a woman out of a hat… you decide who you date and who you marry, so really, it’s not up to chance. it’s up to you. if you just have poor taste, well then, I don’t know what to tell you.

You idiot women are so blind to common sense, it’s comical. When you come back here whining about how the divorce was his fault and you had nothing to do with it, we won’t laugh in your face and say “I told you so.” We won’t tell you you’re acting like a predictable dumb biitch who is repeating the same mantra every other dumb biitch repeats about marriage without the foresight or insight necessary to see what’s wrong with your inane logic. And we definitely won’t think of you as a professional victim aka “independent woman” who whines and blames everyone else for YOUR problems.

No we don’t do that.

Because you’re special.

09-11-2006 06:19 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
hero
Contributor
hero

Acrawfield wrote:

“I dated a med student 4 or 5 years ago, and he was a boring, self-absorbed douchebag, as were most of his med student friends. thus, I decided no more med students for me.”

What man wouldn’t want to date a woman who uses words like “douchebag”?

09-11-2006 07:00 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
porkchops38
Regular Contributor
porkchops38

acrawfield wrote:
you’re entirely missing the point. love isn’t a game of chance, and “odds” don’t apply to it, because you have a certain amount of control over your personal relationships. it’s not like you’re blindly picking a woman out of a hat… you decide who you date and who you marry, so really, it’s not up to chance. it’s up to you. if you just have poor taste, well then, I don’t know what to tell you.

No, you’re missing the point. No matter if a guy picks what he thinks to be the best woman in the world, that guy still has the same “odds” as anyone, and the odds are today that if a man gets married he faces a 50% to 60% chance of getting divorced, and a 70% chance that his wife will initiate the divorce. Beyond that, if that man does not actually get divorced, he faces the high probability that he will be miserable in marriage because I don’t know any married men who are “happily married” in my age group of guys I hang with (ages 20 – 50). So, even if a guy chooses to marry what he thinks is the greatest woman in the world, he faces VERY VERY HIGH PROBABILITY (i.e. “odds”) that he will either be azz-raped in divorce court or he will remain married but miserable in marriage. In reality, those aren’t “odds” I’m willing to play with today, the risk is too great and the possible reward is too little and too unlikely to have a chance to happen. Perhaps some guys who are lazy uneducated losers with not much to lose today might take a chance on marriage today, but myself I have too much to put at risk for so little in return.

09-11-2006 07:09 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
Happy_Bullet
Regular Contributor
Happy_Bullet

the problem is, you’re advising each other on how to choose the “right woman” based on silly generalizations.

uh.. yeah. It is none of your business how we define how we choose the right woman. We can make those decisions ourselves thankyouverymuch. Infact you are biased and thus a HIGHLY unreliable source of information on what is “silly” and what isn’t in this regard. Frankly, I’d listen to statistics over transparent shame tactics and anecdotal evidence any day.

it just seems like the more self-imposed restrictions you come up with, the more potentially great relationships you rule out.

So then basically, “do not have any criteria for what is the right woman and what isn’t”. Sorry, not justification for censoring men’s standards for women.

I suppose if I made a blanket generalisation like “all women are potentially great relationship material!!” I wouldn’t be a moron then?

Men have standards. You have competition. GET USED TO IT.

Also note that while I currently believe that ACatInSD is misguided rather than immoral and manipulative I can see you are the latter and thus not worthy of any semblance of respect. Look at that, you made it into the “rubbish woman” category yet again!!

Message Edited by Happy_Bullet on 09-11-2006 09:39 PM

Men have standards. Women will be compared. DEAL WITH IT.

09-11-2006 09:30 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
Happy_Bullet
Regular Contributor
Happy_Bullet
ACrawfield: Your ridiculous manipulation attempts and agenda have inspired my sig…

Men have standards. Women will be compared. DEAL WITH IT.

09-11-2006 09:48 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
acrawfield
Regular Contributor
acrawfield

“No, you’re missing the point. No matter if a guy picks what he thinks to be the best woman in the world, that guy still has the same “odds” as anyone, and the odds are today that if a man gets married he faces a 50% to 60% chance of getting divorced, and a 70% chance that his wife will initiate the divorce. Beyond that, if that man does not actually get divorced, he faces the high probability that he will be miserable in marriage because I don’t know any married men who are “happily married” in my age group of guys I hang with (ages 20 – 50).”

if you think your entire life is ruled by statistics and probability, and you have no control over what actually happens to you, then you might as well give up right now. I mean, if all your choices and actions are meaningless, why  bother?

come to think of it, there aren’t any people in the group I hang out with who are unhappily married… male or female. maybe your friends are just really bad at relationships.

09-12-2006 12:09 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
acrawfield
Regular Contributor
acrawfield

aww, you don’t respect me? I guess I’ll go sit in a corner and cry then.

I’m not sure how, exactly, you think I’m attempting to manipulate you or what agenda I might have. as I’ve said before, I could care less about your criteria for dating women… even if I were single, I certainly wouldn’t be interested in guys who spout this sort of crap. and I’m certainly not concerned about any sort of competition

for the record, I never said people shouldn’t have standards… but it’s obvious to even the most simple-minded person that the more “deal-breakers” you have, the harder it is to find someone who meets all of them. what you’re not understanding is the difference between “settling” and “being open-minded”. no one should ever compromise what they want, but at the same time, deciding every quality you want in a partner before you even meet them isn’t exactly a recipe for dating success. I certainly prefer to date guys with graduate degrees, but I’m not going to rule out all college-educated guys because they’re “not smart enough”. why? because there are smart people who don’t get graduate degrees, just like there are women with careers who aren’t crazy, man-hating feminists.

09-12-2006 12:21 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
porkchops38
Regular Contributor
porkchops38

acrawfield wrote:
“No, you’re missing the point. No matter if a guy picks what he thinks to be the best woman in the world, that guy still has the same “odds” as anyone, and the odds are today that if a man gets married he faces a 50% to 60% chance of getting divorced, and a 70% chance that his wife will initiate the divorce. Beyond that, if that man does not actually get divorced, he faces the high probability that he will be miserable in marriage because I don’t know any married men who are “happily married” in my age group of guys I hang with (ages 20 – 50).”

if you think your entire life is ruled by statistics and probability, and you have no control over what actually happens to you, then you might as well give up right now. I mean, if all your choices and actions are meaningless, why  bother?

come to think of it, there aren’t any people in the group I hang out with who are unhappily married… male or female. maybe your friends are just really bad at relationships.

Actually, I have control over my life to the extent that I follow statistics and probabilities. Once I throw statistics and probabilities to the wind, then I’m out of control. So, you have this whole concept azz backwards. The real world operates on numbers. I know that many women wish that “love” ruled the world, but unfortunately that only happens in romance novels and hollywood propaganda nowadays. Before feminism came along and effectively changed all the numbers, men were free to “love” and even lose control of the themselves lost in “love”, but nowadays feminists have effective put a price tag this out-of-control “love”, and for many men like me that price is too exorbantly high to even contemplate. Heck, even the NOW gang wants to put a price tag on sex by legalizing prostitution in America. I’m just playing the hand that the misandrist society in America has dealt me, so I don’t get married for any reason, even “love”. I have too much assets accumulated to put at risk, and I’m quite content with that and I have a very meaningful and fulfilling life.

The problem with your perception when you say “there aren’t any people in the group I hang out with who are unhappily married… male or female.” is that unhappily married men generally don’t share their misery with other women, they generally only share such problems with close male friends. That’s just the way it is, so you as a woman would have absolutely no conception of how many married males you know that are truly unhappily married. Men generally don’t air their dirty laundry in public, they generally do it with close male friends in confidence lest they appear as weak to other females and unable to lead their household to other males. So, your perception that all my married male friends that are miserably married are perhaps just bad at relationships, is based upon your faulty understanding of whom men will and will not share their deepest anguishes with.

09-12-2006 12:36 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
acrawfield
Regular Contributor
acrawfield

actually, I have a number of close male friends, and they’ve always talked to me about their relationship problems. I realize that those sorts of male-female friendships are quite foreign to many of you, but there are plenty of guys who aren’t so caught up in the idea of “manliness” that they won’t talk to a female friend about their problems. you’re also ignoring the fact that in an unhappy marriage, rarely is one person miserable and the other perfectly content… if nothing else, the fact that your partner is unhappy is usually enough to make you unhappy… so the fact that none of my female friends are having marital problems is evidence as well.

the fact that you keep putting love in quotation marks makes me wonder if you’ve ever actually experienced it? you can call it hollywood romanticism all you want, but as someone who’s currently in love, I’d have to say that it’s not only real, but pretty awesome.

09-12-2006 12:45 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
porkchops38
Regular Contributor
porkchops38
Of course I’ve been in “love” with a woman before, the quotation marks are simply my way of saying that “love” today has simply become another manipulative tool on the part of women to convince a man to do what his better judgement tells him not to do. Whenever I find myself falling in “love” with a woman, I pick up and run as fast as I can away from such a woman, because love is the only human emotion that I cannot control. Like I say, the feminists have changed all the laws into misandrist laws, so it’s my better judgement that responds by telling me to run away from any woman that I find myself falling in “love” with. You can spare me the speech about how much I’m missing by running from “love”, I’ve heard it a million times from women. It’s quite comical by now. I wonder what happened to all that “love” in those 50% to 60% of divorces today, and what happened to all that “love” among my married male friends who are miserably married… Like I say, “love” today is nothing more than a manipulative tool on the part of women in this misandrist society to get what they want and then throw what they don’t want anymore into the garbage. I have more self-respect than to allow myself to be manipulated like that and crapped on, like so often happens today to even the best of men who choose to get married.

09-12-2006 01:17 PM

==============================================================================
Click on the board or message subject at the top to return.

Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – A question for the career women.

Re: A question for the career women.
acrawfield
Regular Contributor
acrawfield

so do you think the love a woman feels is different than what a man does? if you’re unable to control it, and it convinces you to do things against your better judgment… but women are somehow using it to manipulate you… are you saying women don’t experience love, or it’s different for them? or are they just faking it?

09-12-2006 01:22 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
HappyMom
Regular Contributor
HappyMom
Porkchop,

There is about a million or so dollars to made if you would just start a relationship advice column in anyone of about 10 different women’s magazines. They go for about $5 bucks a pop, 12 issues a year, millions of readers…

Anyhow what you just said here is more truthful than any of the fluffy crap they offer up as good advice such as “a man won’t think you’re a floozy if you sleep with him in the first date”, “Men like strong, independent women”, “being successful in your career is attractive to men” etc…

Anyow, these women don’t realize how lucky they are to be getting insight into what real men think as opposed to what femal journalists think they should think. And your doing it all for free!

However if women woke up and realized what men really wanted and behaved accordingly they would no longer be in the market for such magazines, so maybe its not such a hot business tip after all.

I think that some women enjoy getting men to fall in ‘love’ with them like some men enjoy getting women into bed with them. They use men as ‘love’ objects like some men use women as sex objects. The ultimate prize is getting him to ask her to marry him. But since they don’t know true love is based on hard work towards a common goal (raising healthy, decent children and having a warm, comfortable home) and not fluffy infatuation, it falls apart. The most loving thing a woman can do for her man is love his children and provide a happy home(which kind of entails a lot of different things but I think you all know what those include). The most loving thing a man can do for his woman is show up everyday and protect and provide for her and their children. These boyfriend/girlfriend ‘love’ affairs are nothing more than two people using each other to satisfy their own needs, not working together to create something truly meaningful. So for the feminists to claim men use women for sex is really ignoring half of the equations. The women use men for the flattery.

About something you said on another thread… I think a college education can benefit a woman’s family if used correctly. For example, if she studied accoutning and he owns a home business and she helps with her expertise. However the current no fault divorce laws make this a pipe dream because the business would be lost in the event of the divorce. But this could be a good situation ala Proverbs 31. We are meant to be a help mate for our husbands so any education we have should be put to use to help the household. But also as Termi0n said, it doesn’t teach anyone how to be a good parent/spouse nor could it.

I do agree that the gov’t shouldn’t subsidise college degrees.

09-12-2006 01:51 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
acrawfield
Regular Contributor
acrawfield

happymom, it’s a foregone conclusion that anyone who takes advice from a woman’s magazine advice column is an idiot. however, I don’t think taking advice from porkchop is going to be any more useful, because you’re assuming that he (and the other guys on this board) are actually representative of what “real men think”.

besides the fact that none of the guys I know think like this, the suggestion that any entire gender thinks the same way about anything is ridiculous. perhaps your post should read instead, women who are interested in landing guys like porkchop and martianbachelor should take their advice. but either way, you’re advocating the idea that women should behave not like themselves, but how they think men want them to- which in the end, is really no different than the useless advice cosmo dispenses.

if you want a traditional family, where the wife stays at home and cares for the children, then act like it. if you want a career and a marriage where you’re more equal partners than traditional husband and wife roles, act like it. either way, you’re only going to end up with someone who’s right for you if you quit trying to be what you think other people want, and just be content with your own thoughts, opinions, and personality.

09-12-2006 02:31 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
reclaff
Contributor
reclaff

Message Edited by reclaff on 07-30-2007 03:57 PM

09-12-2006 02:42 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
acrawfield
Regular Contributor
acrawfield

“Ok, fair enough.  But don’t you think the feminist argument is ostensibly that men should act, not like themselves, but how feminists want them to?

After all, we have been told repeatedly we need to be sensitive.  We must abandon being macho.  Competitive spirit and aggression are ridiculous.  Men should not be afraid to show their feelings, should not be afriad to show they’re weak.

So which is it?  Can a man be a man?  Or must he be what the feminist wants?  And if the latter, your comment above shows just how manipulative that is.”

no, I don’t think men should act how women want them to either- at least not to “snag” a woman. the issue at hand is purposely acting differently than you normally would so that you can attract a member of the opposite sex… at best, that will leave you in an incompatible relationship, at worst, it’s flat-out deceit.

do I think men should be sensitive, to an extent (I’m not talking about crying through “titanic”, just being understanding and considerate)? well, sure, I prefer sensitive men. but I don’t think men who aren’t sensitive should try to act like they are. I also don’t think competitiveness or aggression are negative traits, unless used inappropriately… but again, I don’t think men should try to be aggressive and competitive, just because they think they’re supposed to. the point is, no one should let their personality be defined by what they think will please others, or what characteristics they think they’re supposed to have.

09-12-2006 02:53 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
HappyMom
Regular Contributor
HappyMom

acrawfield wrote:
happymom, it’s a foregone conclusion that anyone who takes advice from a woman’s magazine advice column is an idiot. however, I don’t think taking advice from porkchop is going to be any more useful, because you’re assuming that he (and the other guys on this board) are actually representative of what “real men think”.

besides the fact that none of the guys I know think like this, the suggestion that any entire gender thinks the same way about anything is ridiculous. perhaps your post should read instead, women who are interested in landing guys like porkchop and martianbachelor should take their advice. but either way, you’re advocating the idea that women should behave not like themselves, but how they think men want them to- which in the end, is really no different than the useless advice cosmo dispenses.

if you want a traditional family, where the wife stays at home and cares for the children, then act like it. if you want a career and a marriage where you’re more equal partners than traditional husband and wife roles, act like it. either way, you’re only going to end up with someone who’s right for you if you quit trying to be what you think other people want, and just be content with your own thoughts, opinions, and personality.

These magazine represent the current popular option of most women in America that men want certain things from women. This opinion was formed by feminists based on what they want men to want rather than what men actually want.

It has nothing to do with behaving like someone other than yourself. If anything feminism encourages women to behave against their own nature by encouraging contempt for traditionally feminine behaviors. If men and women don’t follow their specific roles you have only chaos in households, not harmnony. EVER.

These men who post here are telling you things they wouldn’t tell you to your face bacause of the zeitgiest which encourages them to stiffle any dissenting opinions for fear of being labeled a misogynist and losing their jobs, not getting laid etc… Sp you can look a gift horse in the mouth or you can listen to these hard sometimes painful views that these men share about modern American women. You are only contributing to their negative opinion of you when you try to debate based on faulty logic. You sound like the stereotypical whiny, nagging, ever complaining witch. Maybe you should go to Haiti for your next getaway to see how cushy us American women have it. Whoever told you that going to work and persuing your own desires was liberating flat out LIED.

Biology hasn’t changed in the past 6000. Women weren’t designed to run Fortune 500 companies, fight on the front lines, rule households or sleep around. The Lord God designed us this way. You can get mad at God for not making you a man or you can understand your role and stop fighting aginast your own nature. It isn’t in your best interest.

Feminism is just another manifestation of that old serpent. Up to his same tricks. He knows women are the weak link so he goes for the juggular.

The point of the article is that this new fangled ‘family’ doesn’t work. It is bad for the kids, bad for the husband and bad for the wife. Once you set about having children, IT’S NOT ALL ABOUT YOU ANd YOU’RE COTTON PICKIN EXISTENTIAL ANGST and never will be for the rest of your life. So badgering these men into accepting some new model that you came up with this week but shall surely change next week ain’t gonna work. They are onto the crock that is feminism and I hope lots of women are too although I think our society has chased hedonism too far and is now doomed. We may be shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic at this point…

If people would simply obey the Lord and keep his commandments, marriage would be easy.

Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
Titus 2:5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

09-12-2006 03:28 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
porkchops38
Regular Contributor
porkchops38

acrawfield wrote:
so do you think the love a woman feels is different than what a man does? if you’re unable to control it, and it convinces you to do things against your better judgment… but women are somehow using it to manipulate you… are you saying women don’t experience love, or it’s different for them? or are they just faking it?

I’ve never had the priviledge to get inside a woman’s head and tinker around in there to see which way the little hamster in running in there, so I couldn’t say for certain. However, I do know for certain that so many laws in America are 100% misandrist, including but not limited to the current divorce laws across America. Thus, the misandrist laws become an outside force that is interjected into the typical woman’s mind today. Also, it seems to me that for the most of women in America today that “love” for them seems to be based upon something temporary, as there can be no other rational explanation as to why 70% of divorces today are filed by the wife (unless of course 70% of those women were married to men who are really the scum of the earth, but that wouldn’t be rational of course). Thus, it seems to me, and it’s my contention, that the current misandrist divorce laws combined with the current American woman’s typical mindset of basing “love” on something temporary — are the two most contributing factors leading to the end result of 70% of divorces initiated by the wife today. Like I say, I can’t get inside the mind of today’s typical woman and find for certain, but it does seem to me that many a women today base their “love” on temporal things.

In contrast, it seems to me that women like HappyMom are basing their ideas of “love” on more than just the temporal things, because she’s quoting from words she believes to be originating from the eternal. So in her case, she’s interjecting in her life words she believes to be of eternal nature to define her definition of “love”, instead of listening to the misandrist laws in America and letting those misandrist laws affect her definition of “love” when it suits her temporal self-interests. I respect anyone’s belief in the eternal where it’s logical, and I don’t see HappyMom’s belief in the eternal as illogical. That being said, I highly doubt that I would still consider even marrying any woman today no matter what their religious belief, but if there is any woman that could possibly change my mind about marriage it could only be a woman like Happymom who bases her definition of “love” on something eternal instead of temporal, and I suspect that’s probably how some lucky guy snatched-up HappyMom like she was the last woman on earth, and that’s probably why she sounds like she’s happily married.

So, in summation, it seems to me that many a woman today base their idea of “love” on temporal things, and when the buzz of “love” subsides, when the honeymoon is over, when this temporal “love” no longer can stand huge credit card bills, the proverbial crap hits the fan and suddenly 70% of women are the first to cut and run, and the man sits there with that deer-in-the-headlights look wondering what the heck happened. Yes I know it all sounds like some kind of sick joke if it wasn’t so serious, but it is serious and it’s happening every day. Now whether you are willing or able to put the blame at the feet of feminism, it does not matter, but the fact is that we didn’t have this kind of sick society going back just 50 years ago. Tonight when you go to sleep, 66% of children in America will also go to sleep tonight in a household that does not include their biological father, and those children will inherit $117 trillion in debt and growing. I smell slavery in the air.

09-12-2006 04:18 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
acrawfield
Regular Contributor
acrawfield

“If men and women don’t follow their specific roles you have only chaos in households, not harmnony. EVER.”

weird, because my mom and dad split all the cooking duties, and somehow I managed to survive that horribly chaotic upbringing…

“These men who post here are telling you things they wouldn’t tell you to your face bacause of the zeitgiest which encourages them to stiffle any dissenting opinions for fear of being labeled a misogynist and losing their jobs, not getting laid etc… Sp you can look a gift horse in the mouth or you can listen to these hard sometimes painful views that these men share about modern American women. You are only contributing to their negative opinion of you when you try to debate based on faulty logic. You sound like the stereotypical whiny, nagging, ever complaining witch. Maybe you should go to Haiti for your next getaway to see how cushy us American women have it. Whoever told you that going to work and persuing your own desires was liberating flat out LIED.”

wow, for such a happy lady, you sure are hostile. I’m pretty much only here to debate, and in fact, I don’t remember whining or complaining about anything. I’m pretty content with my life these days, I think “cushy” would be a great word for it. I’m getting a great education, and getting paid to do so, good job prospects, and a wonderful boyfriend…. nope, no complaints here.

as I’ve said before, I think people who are raised by working mothers tend to have different perspectives than those raised by SAHMs. well, the vast majority of my male friends were raised by working mothers, so I’m afraid your “insights” into their innermost thoughts are probably pretty far off. if they shared your thoughts about traditional gender roles, they’d probably want stay-at-home wives, right? except none of them do… in fact, most of my married male friends are not only married to “career women”, they’re married to women who work in the same or similar fields (two archaeology professors, two marine biologists, two doctors, etc).

“The point of the article is that this new fangled ‘family’ doesn’t work. It is bad for the kids, bad for the husband and bad for the wife. Once you set about having children, IT’S NOT ALL ABOUT YOU ANd YOU’RE COTTON PICKIN EXISTENTIAL ANGST and never will be for the rest of your life. So badgering these men into accepting some new model that you came up with this week but shall surely change next week ain’t gonna work.”

uh… what cotton pickin existential angst are you referring to, exactly? the only person who seems pissed off here is you. and I have no desire to badger anyone into accepting anything… if you want to stay at home, go for it. but I’m going to have a career, and no amount of… ahem… “badgering” on your part is going to convince me to abandon my education to make casseroles and knit mittens.

my parents were both teachers, my dad a professor, my mom a teacher at a community college. they both worked during my entire childhood, shared household duties, divided the cooking, cleaning, driving duties, etc. and you know what? it worked out just fine.

so quit telling everyone that your way is the only right one. not everyone is like you, not every family is like yours, and there are plenty of different ways to make things work.

09-12-2006 04:20 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
MartianBachelor
Regular Contributor
MartianBachelor
“…women who are interested in landing guys like porkchop and martianbachelor should take their advice.”

Hey, I resemble that remark… What did I do now?

Nobody’s going to “land” me. I’m not some fish going after baited hooks, nor do I have any intention of being some woman’s “man prize”.

Remember, to know me is to truly love me.

______________________________________________
“The loudest, most strident voices calling women weak, stupid, and incapable of competing in the world at large are the feminists.” – zed the zen priest

09-12-2006 04:20 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
acrawfield
Regular Contributor
acrawfield

“Thus, the misandrist laws become an outside force that is interjected into the typical woman’s mind today. Also, it seems to me that for the most of women in America today that “love” for them seems to be based upon something temporary, as there can be no other rational explanation as to why 70% of divorces today are filed by the wife.”

I don’t think the laws have anything to do with being in love… quite frankly, I’m not that concerned with divorce laws, as I don’t intend to ever have a use for them. as to whether they could affect your average woman… honestly, I’m not sure, but I think the ease of divorce contributes more to the “temporal” nature of marriage than any inequity in the alimony laws. the fact is, people get married thinking, well, if it goes south, divorce is always an option… and that’s a big part of the problem, and not one that’s easy to fix. if you changed the alimony laws, I’m not sure you’d see a big decrease in the number of divorces, because you’d still have all those couples who should never have been married anyway, seeking an easy out.

09-12-2006 04:27 PM

==============================================================================
Click on the board or message subject at the top to return.
Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – A question for the career women.

Re: A question for the career women.
porkchops38
Regular Contributor
porkchops38

acrawfield wrote:
“Thus, the misandrist laws become an outside force that is interjected into the typical woman’s mind today. Also, it seems to me that for the most of women in America today that “love” for them seems to be based upon something temporary, as there can be no other rational explanation as to why 70% of divorces today are filed by the wife.”

I don’t think the laws have anything to do with being in love… quite frankly, I’m not that concerned with divorce laws, as I don’t intend to ever have a use for them. as to whether they could affect your average woman… honestly, I’m not sure, but I think the ease of divorce contributes more to the “temporal” nature of marriage than any inequity in the alimony laws. the fact is, people get married thinking, well, if it goes south, divorce is always an option… and that’s a big part of the problem, and not one that’s easy to fix. if you changed the alimony laws, I’m not sure you’d see a big decrease in the number of divorces, because you’d still have all those couples who should never have been married anyway, seeking an easy out.

Well of course, the misandrist laws can only possibly come into affect after the man says “I do”. I’m immune to the misandrist divorce laws because I’ve never said “I do” and so long as I never do, I’ll keep that immunity to the misandrist divorce laws. Actually, the divorce rates effectively and immediately doubled in the 1970’s when and where no-fault divorce laws were initiated, thus laws do affect people’s behavior. Imagine if there were no laws against stealing? This isn’t rocket science cupcake.

p.s. I’m not saying that changing divorce laws are the cure-all, I’m just saying they are misandrist, and a good starting place to start affecting change if people indeed want change. However, the feminists will not be satisfied until 100% of divorces are initiated by the wife, right now it’s only 70%.

09-12-2006 05:24 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
acrawfield
Regular Contributor
acrawfield

“Actually, the divorce rates effectively and immediately doubled in the 1970’s when and where no-fault divorce laws were initiated, thus laws do affect people’s behavior. Imagine if there were no laws against stealing? This isn’t rocket science cupcake.”

I never said laws don’t affect people’s behavior, sweetness. I said I thought making divorce easier was more of an issue than changing the laws on alimony or spousal support. do no-fault divorce laws make a divorce easier to obtain?

in any case, that law probably had a large impact on already-married people (specifically those who were unhappily married and wanted a divorce anyway), which is a separate issue from people who are still single and considering marriage.

09-12-2006 05:32 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
porkchops38
Regular Contributor
porkchops38

acrawfield wrote:
“Actually, the divorce rates effectively and immediately doubled in the 1970’s when and where no-fault divorce laws were initiated, thus laws do affect people’s behavior. Imagine if there were no laws against stealing? This isn’t rocket science cupcake.”

I never said laws don’t affect people’s behavior, sweetness. I said I thought making divorce easier was more of an issue than changing the laws on alimony or spousal support. do no-fault divorce laws make a divorce easier to obtain?

in any case, that law probably had a large impact on already-married people (specifically those who were unhappily married and wanted a divorce anyway), which is a separate issue from people who are still single and considering marriage.

Well in the state I reside, alimony is tied into the no-fault divorce laws. For example, a guy I work with came home one day at lunch time and found his wife in bed with a guy she met at the health club. When she was caught in bed with another guy, she confessed to her husband that she was having the affair with the guy for several months (which made the guy want to heave his guts out among other things), and she said she was sorry and felt guilty about it, so she decided to file for divorce (I guess the divorce was to ease her guilt, that’s how the story sounded to me as my buddy told me). Well, she was a SAHM, so she didn’t have any income for several years. When the divorce was over, the judge awarded her the house, she also got full custody of their children, the ex-husband was ordered to pay child-support for his children, and he was ordered to pay alimony to his ex-wife so she could “maintain her standard of living” which she had when she was married. Effectively, the guy had to pay child support and pay alimony so his wife could afford to live in their house, all the while she gets to keep screwing other guys with impunity because no-fault means the judge doesn’t care who’s fault brought about the divorce. Oh by the way, I believe the judge ordered his ex-wife to have to attend one or two college courses in order to be eligible to receive the alimony, but the stipulations of the judge were so minor that a retarded child could have met the stipulations required to receive the alimony. I don’t recall exactly how long his ex-wife was eligible to receive alimony, but I think it was somewhere around 7 to 10 years (or until she graduates college) and it was a significant amount of money which effectively forced my buddy to live in a one-bedroom apartment in the ghetto, while his wife got most of his money in the form of child-support and alimony so she can go find more guys to screw at college instead of at the health club. Under the old fault-divorce laws, this marriage might have very well had a different outcome. However, realistically I don’t believe that American society can go back to the fault-divorce laws, because it’s too screwed-up nowadays.

09-12-2006 06:21 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
toadman
Regular Contributor
toadman

“Actually, the divorce rates effectively and immediately doubled in the 1970’s when and where no-fault divorce laws were initiated, thus laws do affect people’s behavior.”

Think about that ladies. Amidst angelic singing the double-doors to freedom and personal happiness(including The Pill and Roe vs. Wade) were opened and society accepted you as absolute equals in the eyes of the law.

Being clueless women, it was a gift many of you and and your moms have squandered in your selfish greed to be happy with no responsibility nor penalty.

Message Edited by toadman on 09-12-2006 05:46 PM

09-12-2006 08:45 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
HappyMom
Regular Contributor
HappyMom
No fault divorce is a joke. Till death do us part or until I just don’t feel like being with you anymore.
Perhaps if divorced people were not allowed to remarry, since subsequent marriage fail at greater rates than the first one, people might think a little more reasonably about marriage.

Luke 16:18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery
1 Co 7:10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.

09-12-2006 10:42 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
MartianBachelor
Regular Contributor
MartianBachelor
“Perhaps if divorced people were not allowed to remarry, since subsequent marriage fail at greater rates than the first one, people might think a little more reasonably about marriage.”

That’s an interesting idea. You get one marriage permit at birth and that’s it — but what if it’s the other person who divorces you? Maybe it’s the person who files for the divorce that should have their marriage privileges revoked. Not that marriage is much more than notorized dating these days.

Actually there’s a better way. Make this the patriarchy it’s accused of being and give custody of the kids to the father. The divorce rate was miniscule when mothers would be assured of losing their children in a divorce, and fathers needed mothers around to care for the kids so they had little incentive to divorce either. Father custody helps bind families together, whereas mother custody causes them to be fragile.

The divorce rate started rising right about the time mother custody was instituted. The no-fault “innovation” was just the last in a series of tweaks designed to salvage an already bad idea. It’s been a tried-and-failed experiment. We should do a restore on the system to the last known good configuration.

One side effect of this would be that it would free women in the event of a divorce to pursue those careers they want so much. The current mother custody norm puts women into the “custody trap”, from which it’s very difficult to escape, partly because a woman w/kids is much less desirable as a mate.

At the very least we should give people choices about the form of marriage they prefer, rather than forcing everyone into a one-size-fits-all thing called “marriage”.

______________________________________________
“The loudest, most strident voices calling women weak, stupid, and incapable of competing in the world at large are the feminists.” – zed the zen priest

09-12-2006 11:19 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
porkchops38
Regular Contributor
porkchops38

HappyMom wrote:
Porkchop,

There is about a million or so dollars to made if you would just start a relationship advice column in anyone of about 10 different women’s magazines. They go for about $5 bucks a pop, 12 issues a year, millions of readers…

Anyhow what you just said here is more truthful than any of the fluffy crap they offer up as good advice such as “a man won’t think you’re a floozy if you sleep with him in the first date”, “Men like strong, independent women”, “being successful in your career is attractive to men” etc…

Anyow, these women don’t realize how lucky they are to be getting insight into what real men think as opposed to what femal journalists think they should think. And your doing it all for free!

However if women woke up and realized what men really wanted and behaved accordingly they would no longer be in the market for such magazines, so maybe its not such a hot business tip after all.

I think that some women enjoy getting men to fall in ‘love’ with them like some men enjoy getting women into bed with them. They use men as ‘love’ objects like some men use women as sex objects. The ultimate prize is getting him to ask her to marry him. But since they don’t know true love is based on hard work towards a common goal (raising healthy, decent children and having a warm, comfortable home) and not fluffy infatuation, it falls apart. The most loving thing a woman can do for her man is love his children and provide a happy home(which kind of entails a lot of different things but I think you all know what those include). The most loving thing a man can do for his woman is show up everyday and protect and provide for her and their children. These boyfriend/girlfriend ‘love’ affairs are nothing more than two people using each other to satisfy their own needs, not working together to create something truly meaningful. So for the feminists to claim men use women for sex is really ignoring half of the equations. The women use men for the flattery.

About something you said on another thread… I think a college education can benefit a woman’s family if used correctly. For example, if she studied accoutning and he owns a home business and she helps with her expertise. However the current no fault divorce laws make this a pipe dream because the business would be lost in the event of the divorce. But this could be a good situation ala Proverbs 31. We are meant to be a help mate for our husbands so any education we have should be put to use to help the household. But also as Termi0n said, it doesn’t teach anyone how to be a good parent/spouse nor could it.

I do agree that the gov’t shouldn’t subsidise college degrees.

Yes I like your idea about women using their college degrees to work stay at home businesses, but the limiting factor in my opinion would be the best years for a woman’s child-bearing is 18 – 26, so rather than taking college courses during those years, it seems to me a woman should be taking le mas courses. Also, if a young girl is serious about high school, she could end up with a significant amount of education that could benefit a household just with a high-school diploma. The guy who started Dell computer was a college-dropout, and if a man can do that without a college degree then the allegedly superior sex (women) should be able to do wonders with just a high-school diploma.

Anyways, thanks for the kudos. You certainly are an impressive woman. I’m sure your husband knows that and appreciates you much, and I’m sure you must treat your husband like a king. You poor oppressed woman! LOL J/K

p.s. do you have any unmarried sisters?

09-13-2006 12:51 AM

Re: A question for the career women.
HappyMom
Regular Contributor
HappyMom

acrawfield wrote:

wow, for such a happy lady, you sure are hostile.

I’m happy about my individual lot in life, not about the state this country has gotten itself into.

acrawfield wrote:

so quit telling everyone that your way is the only right one. not everyone is like you, not every family is like yours, and there are plenty of different ways to make things work.

Did someone say hostile?

09-13-2006 02:32 AM

Re: A question for the career women.
HappyMom
Regular Contributor
HappyMom

porkchops38 wrote:

Yes I like your idea about women using their college degrees to work stay at home businesses, but the limiting factor in my opinion would be the best years for a woman’s child-bearing is 18 – 26, so rather than taking college courses during those years, it seems to me a woman should be taking le mas courses. Also, if a young girl is serious about high school, she could end up with a significant amount of education that could benefit a household just with a high-school diploma. The guy who started Dell computer was a college-dropout, and if a man can do that without a college degree then the allegedly superior sex (women) should be able to do wonders with just a high-school diploma.

Anyways, thanks for the kudos. You certainly are an impressive woman. I’m sure your husband knows that and appreciates you much, and I’m sure you must treat your husband like a king. You poor oppressed woman! LOL J/K

p.s. do you have any unmarried sisters?

I agree the timing of college for girls in those years is off. And since anyone and there dog can get a degree nowadays its no guarantee she would learn much useful information anyhow. She could make better use of her high school years to help her future family. That is probably the best bet.

I think the problem is they aren’t told these things in their homes or schools ( not that its the school’s job – its the parents’). So, since teenagers are generally dumb about life they have to learn the hard way and that takes time. What I could have done with that time had I known then what I do now.

I definitely feel I get the better end of the deal in my marriage. I’m just hoping he never figures that out I’m not impressive, I just recognize things that hit close to home becuase I’ve seen it before and I wish it hadn’t taken me quite so long to ‘get it’. That’s why they’re so mad. Deep, down they know its true and they wish they had figured it out long ago.

By the way, my sister has a huge tatoo and a tongue ring. You could say we’ve gone different paths in life.

09-13-2006 02:50 AM

Re: A question for the career women.
porkchops38
Regular Contributor
porkchops38
Yikes, I run from women with tattoos. Peircings are okay/nasty depending upon where they are and how many they have. Two pierced ears is okay, anything beyond that is nasty to me.

09-13-2006 11:43 AM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – A question for the career women.

Re: A question for the career women.
acrawfield
Regular Contributor
acrawfield

“Did someone say hostile?”

and once again, you manage to not respond to any of my actual points… which is fine. at least the argument ends faster that way.

my underlying point is this- I don’t think women who have careers should tell you that the way you’re living your life is wrong, that you’re stupid, wasting your education, setting a bad example for your daughters, or any of that. but at the same time, you don’t have the right to tell them that they’re selfish, irresponsible, horrible mothers, etc, etc. your lifestyle works for you, and that’s great. but it’s a mistake to assume that everyone else should, or wants, to live the same way you do.

my mother worked, and did a great job raising us. I consider her a wonderful role model, and nothing you can say would ever change that. so perhaps, a little more understanding towards other people’s choices and perspectives would come in handy here.

09-13-2006 02:32 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
HappyMom
Regular Contributor
HappyMom

acrawfield wrote:
“Did someone say hostile?”

and once again, you manage to not respond to any of my actual points… which is fine. at least the argument ends faster that way.

my underlying point is this- I don’t think women who have careers should tell you that the way you’re living your life is wrong, that you’re stupid, wasting your education, setting a bad example for your daughters, or any of that. but at the same time, you don’t have the right to tell them that they’re selfish, irresponsible, horrible mothers, etc, etc. your lifestyle works for you, and that’s great. but it’s a mistake to assume that everyone else should, or wants, to live the same way you do.

my mother worked, and did a great job raising us. I consider her a wonderful role model, and nothing you can say would ever change that. so perhaps, a little more understanding towards other people’s choices and perspectives would come in handy here.

You made some points? I hadn’t noticed.

Actually, I do have that right. It’s called the first amendment.

I dont’ suffer fools anymore. Not telling people the cold, hard truth is what got us into this mess. The most loving thing you can do for your fello human beings is to tell them the truth. Especially when it is unpopular. Especially when they don’t want to hear it. Especially when no one in the media, their family, the schools, etc seems to be doing it.

09-13-2006 02:36 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
acrawfield
Regular Contributor
acrawfield

“You made some points? I hadn’t noticed.

Actually, I do have that right. It’s called the first amendment.

I dont’ suffer fools anymore. Not telling people the cold, hard truth is what got us into this mess. The most loving thing you can do for your fello human beings is to tell them the truth. Especially when it is unpopular. Especially when they don’t want to hear it. Especially when no one in the media, their family, the schools, etc seems to be doing it.”

somehow, I’m not surprised. but debating is a waste of time when you refuse to listen to anyone’s else perspective because the possibility that they could have a valid point is simply unfathomable to you. it’s like plugging your ears and shouting at the top of your lungs.

regardless, of course you have the right to say whatever you’d like, but if you go around telling people how to live their lives (because apparently you’re an expert on the matter) everyone has the right to think you’re a self-important b*tch. I hate to break it to you, but your “cold, hard truth” is nothing more than your opinion. we’re not discussing whether 2 + 2 equals 4 here. we’re discussing a complex issue that has an infinite number of different opinions and perspectives… and if you’d take the time to listen to someone else’s, you might learn something.

09-13-2006 02:46 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
HappyMom
Regular Contributor
HappyMom
It will only ever make me happy when people who think like that call me a female dog. If they liked what I had to say, then I would know I was wrong.

09-13-2006 03:07 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
acrawfield
Regular Contributor
acrawfield

wow… you’re really capable of convincing yourself of anything, huh? you’re so sure that only your opinion is right, so you don’t care what people who disagree with you think, because they disagree with you, so they must be wrong… that’s some remarkable circular logic there.

I guess when you’re not exposed to any of that crazy new-fangled “education”,
you never feel the need critically evaluate your own point of view.

09-13-2006 03:16 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
tellafriend
Regular Contributor
tellafriend

acrawfield wrote:

wow… you’re really capable of convincing yourself of anything, huh? you’re so sure that only your opinion is right, so you don’t care what people who disagree with you think, because they disagree with you, so they must be wrong… that’s some remarkable circular logic there.

I guess when you’re not exposed to any of that crazy new-fangled “education”,
you never feel the need critically evaluate your own point of view.

You dumb bitch, you’re an extreme case of the pot calling the kettle black. How about your take your own advice and put your female idiocy to bed.

09-13-2006 03:46 PM

Re: A question for the career women.
HappyMom
Regular Contributor
HappyMom
We’re all just dim bulbs in the glow of her genius

09-13-2006 04:00 PM

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