As a women, why we work?


Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – As a women, why we work?

As a women, why we work?
amberwilliam
Visitor
amberwilliam

This is from Business Space

1.money
2.interest
3.idle time away
4.keep abreast with husband or boyfriend
5.for our children
6.for our parents
7.sense of confidence
8.sense of achievement

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09-12-2006 11:01 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
PatriarchVerlch
Regular Contributor
PatriarchVerlch

I think women work for…

1. Themselves
1. Themselves
3. Themselves
5. Themselves
11. Themselves
100. Themselves
1000. Themselves
10,000. Themselves
10,001. Their kids
100,000.  Shoes
100,001. Themselves

Women in general are about as independant as baby lions to their mothers.

Women have been proving for the last 30 years that men have been right for the last 30 centuries!
http://www.verlch.blogspot.com

09-13-2006 12:14 AM

Re: As a women, why we work?
MartianBachelor
Regular Contributor
MartianBachelor
>> 100,000. Shoes

ROTFLO!!!

______________________________________________
“The loudest, most strident voices calling women weak, stupid, and incapable of competing in the world at large are the feminists.” – zed the zen priest

09-13-2006 12:29 AM

Re: As a women, why we work?
tomshh
Regular Contributor
tomshh

1.money
2.interest
3.idle time away
4.keep abreast with husband or boyfriend
5.for our children
6.for our parents
7.sense of confidence
8.sense of achievement
————————————————-

I can agree, but I think you need to expand on these more, such as…

1) Money – It takes money to have a credit card.  And it takes a credit card to spend 2 grand at Nordstroms buying sh!t you will wear 1 time, and impress NO ONE, especially NOT the man in your life.

2) Interest – Not in the job, but the work gossip that has made American companies shells of their former selves, so we average worker can continue to make less and less per capita.  Good work sh!t women.

3) Time away – From your OH SO stressful life of sitting on your a**, eating bon bons and watching Opera.  While the house cleaner cleans the house, and nanny raises the kid.

4) Keep abreast with your BF/Husband – You mean so you can compete, start more fights at home, and ensure the house and the kids are a mess after you both put in an 8 hour day at the office.

5) For our children – Let strangers raise them, f*** ’em.  Then make sure the school year extends year round.  You gotta make money so you can “think about your children”.

6) For our parents – I don’t know of any USA women caring enough to actually give back to their parents.  They might exist, but they will continue to get more and more rare.

7) Sense of confidence – Because pretending like you are powerful, and abusing any little bit of power you have, is what makes a woman confident.

8) Sense of achievement – And if you don’t “achieve” you claim discrimination.  It is not your fault you work less hours.  You should get the VERY same pay as those evil men who work longer hours, and take on more tasks.

09-13-2006 01:27 AM

Re: As a women, why we work?
Happy_Bullet
Regular Contributor
Happy_Bullet

1. Consumer goods. Massive amounts. Ability to get higher limit credit cards.

2. Some misguided belief that the “alpha woman” gets the “alpha man”.

Say it ain’t so.

Men have standards. Women will be compared. DEAL WITH IT.

09-13-2006 03:23 AM

Re: As a women, why we work?
toadman
Regular Contributor
toadman

That makes American women parasites, does it not? Selfishly suckling at the teat of entitlement because they legally can without remorse or penalty for doing so.

Message Edited by toadman on 09-13-2006 12:37 AM

09-13-2006 03:36 AM

Re: As a women, why we work?
goodsamaritan55
Visitor
goodsamaritan55
Family comes first.
House WORK is WORK!!!
And career women HATE house WORK.
Because house work is the hardest work there is.

If a woman does NOT have the time, skills, or desire to:

– have great sex to produce lots of children
– cook for the family
– clean the home
– take care of her children and her husband

Then that woman has NO BUSINESS marrying any of my sons.

http://www.fertilityhelp.net, http://www.myhealthblog.org, http://www.insideracing.com.ph, http://www.rbap.org

09-13-2006 06:11 AM

Re: As a women, why we work?
Cassius
Regular Contributor
Cassius
good point also when your sons meet the parents hubby should be living with the wife in the mansion and not in an cheap appartment on the other end of town. To me the daughters of divorced parents are only good for one thing.

09-13-2006 08:25 AM

Re: As a women, why we work?
OneSmartChick
Regular Contributor
OneSmartChick

Have your sons considered the repressed women in Afghanistan?   Maybe a forced life of cooking, cleaning and pumping our babies in the US would look good to them.  After all – at least they don’t have the Taliban at the door.  But they might, after marriage, want to stay over there;  once she got to the US and realized that women have opportunties too – she might – gasp – want to go to college – and faint – get a job – or worse – have an “EVIL” career.

09-13-2006 10:31 AM

Re: As a women, why we work?
moneyneversleep
Regular Contributor
moneyneversleep

I, quite frankly, don’t care one whit about women in Afghanistan or elsewhere.  That is their government and cultural issues to address and deal with, not yours and not ours.   Quit trying to export your cultural and value influences to cultures that are different or do not want it.   What an idiot you are.  Worry about your own cultural and values before you attempt to force feed your beliefs upon someone else and export that which they do not want.

09-13-2006 10:47 AM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – As a women, why we work?

Re: As a women, why we work?
MartianBachelor
Regular Contributor
MartianBachelor
Gather round kiddies, OneDumbChick is going to tell us an old favorite, the story about Little Red Burkha-Hood going into the forest and running into the Big Bad Taliban…

______________________________________________
“The loudest, most strident voices calling women weak, stupid, and incapable of competing in the world at large are the feminists.” – zed the zen priest

09-13-2006 10:59 AM

Re: As a women, why we work?
porkchops38
Regular Contributor
porkchops38

OneSmartChick wrote:
Have your sons considered the repressed women in Afghanistan?   Maybe a forced life of cooking, cleaning and pumping our babies in the US would look good to them.  After all – at least they don’t have the Taliban at the door.  But they might, after marriage, want to stay over there;  once she got to the US and realized that women have opportunties too – she might – gasp – want to go to college – and faint – get a job – or worse – have an “EVIL” career.

Generally, Muslim women are forbidden to marry non-Muslim men because Muslims fear such a marriage will lead to the non-Muslim husband leading the Muslim wife and children away from Islam. There have been stories in the news about muslim women who run away from their family to secretly marry a non-muslim man, but most of them are soon hunted-down by their fathers, brothers, uncles, etc., and when they find her they practice what is called in Islam “honor killing” because in their belief the woman has soiled their family honor by marrying a non-muslim man and/or leaving Islam.

There are no restrictions upon Muslim men from marrying non-muslim women because in Islam men have absolute power, so generally when a muslim man marries a non-muslim woman, he will generally just beat her in accordance with Sura 4:34 in the “Holy Koran”, until she submits to conversion to Islam for her and any children they have.

I myself would never consider marriage with a muslim woman for many reasons, such as the fact that I wouldn’t want to subject such a woman to the possibility of an “honor killing”. Also, since most muslim women have had their clitori cut off in FGM rituals sanctioned by Islam, I wouldn’t want to marry a woman who is clitless, too boring in bed I would imagine. Call me “picky” I guess.

09-13-2006 11:11 AM

Re: As a women, why we work?
HappyMom
Regular Contributor
HappyMom

OneSmartChick wrote:
Have your sons considered the repressed women in Afghanistan?   Maybe a forced life of cooking, cleaning and pumping our babies in the US would look good to them.  After all – at least they don’t have the Taliban at the door.  But they might, after marriage, want to stay over there;  once she got to the US and realized that women have opportunties too – she might – gasp – want to go to college – and faint – get a job – or worse – have an “EVIL” career.

When you are done dismantling every law that makes sense, and our society has completed its inevitable downward spiral to the absolute nadir, then you will be begging for a life as good as the one women in Afganistan lead.

So you keep typing out this nonsense about how oppressed us poor women are as you sit in your nice home with electricity, clean water, entertainment. Meanwhile a mother in Haiti is trying to teach her kids to not play in the human sewage that runs down the streets uncovered.

09-13-2006 11:14 AM

Re: As a women, why we work?
PatriarchVerlch
Regular Contributor
PatriarchVerlch

Is looking after the fruit of your womb really that horrible? Who better than the woman to let their child suckle on their breasts. To tend to their needs? These women are raising the next generation of our nation.

With the revelation that playing man-ville is so much fun, women are knocking the one of the oldest professions in the world?

We are not reproducing ladies and Gentlemen. Some women are too busy believing everything they hear on Oprah. Look at her barren ass. You career women are grossly confused, and really, stop believing what every closet progressive commie in sheep’s clothing is telling you, with their PhD from a cracker jack box.

Women have been proving for the last 30 years that men have been right for the last 30 centuries!
http://www.verlch.blogspot.com

09-13-2006 12:34 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
Diogetrix
Regular Contributor
Diogetrix

Elsewhere I have mentioned how the idiot American bimbos are used by the corporate-military rulers to enable conquest schemes. People have short memories, and when the corporate media doesn’t remind them, the people forget quickly what happened. It was only four years ago that American bimbos were cranked up by their feminist leadership (who take their orders from the old establishment) and we had to go rescue the women of Afghanistan. The result is that the women of Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Iraq, Iran, Israel, Jordan, Greece, Turkey, and a few other places are all contaminated with depleted uranium, and have little chance of giving birth to genetically undamaged children. In some places the situation is so horrible that young women are killing themselves to avoid marriage and giving birth to monsters – or gobs of jelly. Don’t think it’s as simple or local as Agent Orange – depleted uranium is the ultimate poison, and we are all going to share in the destruction. It’s in the food chain, concentrates in body tissue, never goes away, cannot be cleaned up or filtered out, and the genetic damage goes on occurring generation after generation – forever, or until the species of animal degrades into non-survivable forms. You notice that the fems aren’t talking so much about the need to make war for the benefit of foreign women anymore?

09-13-2006 12:52 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
Cassius
Regular Contributor
Cassius
Depleted uranium is barely radioactive. Dont u think they did not bother passing a geiger counter over the shells before mass producing them. Do you have maybe sources linked to depleted uranium ?

09-13-2006 01:46 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
merrylaff
Contributor
merrylaff
Happy Mom
I so agree with you on nearly everything you say but I think you need to be careful…..surely as a born again believer you also know the Scripture says “Husbands, love you wife as Christ loved the Church”. To even begin to appear to align yourself with those who have no problem with a society where women are oppressed, beaten into submission, and given no opportunity to have a voice is to do a disservice to the authority of Scripture. I am a tradionalist. I believe moms with kids,as much as is possible, should make the choice of staying home and raising them to be productive, responsible adults. I also know that if a voice of balance is not heard, then our society could quickly degenerate into a society where women are objects, not humans.

Remember, our U.S. society was primarily settled by Judeo-Christian followers….but many of the men on this board don’t even come close to embracing a Judeo Christian ethic.

If a husband is commited and loving and provides for his family, and is committed to her if she becomes incapacitated, then I am all for a woman being at home, being the “helpmate” that God originally planned.

But you know as well as I as well that Jeremiah says “the heart is desperately wicked, who can know it” and that refers to both sexes. Remember, Eve was deceived, but Adam chose, hence sin entered the world through him. That is just scripture –

Remember the woman caught in adultery? What was the real issue there? The issue was the duplicity of the men – because if she had been caught in adultery, why wasn’t the man who was caught there to be stoned as well? Jesus simply told her to go and sin no more because HE knew that there was a double standard and in that situation only forgiveness was truly relevant.

Jesus certainly was a real man. He gave His life. I can’t see that you would endorse in any way the things said by certain individuals on this forum who consistently refer to females as dumb b****** and as idiots. I think a biblical response would be to distance yourself from them as well as from the feminists/feminazis. In Genesis we read that God made male and female both in His image and He said it was good. Therefore, women simply cannot be dumb idiots – God is not into making dumb idiots because He is not a dumb idiot and we are made in His image.

The truth of the matter is, unless the foundational thinking is a Biblical premise then what you or I have in common with either side is nothing. If Scripture is not one’s final authority, then you are unequally yoked in argumentation. To defend these men is the same as to defend the feminists. Both have rejected, ultimately, God’s plan and authority. I kind of feel like a few of these guys would rather their “woman” have an abortion than face the responsibility of raising a child. Not all – some.

So – while you repudiate feminism and all the evil it has wrought(and remember – I pretty much agree with you on that), please repudiate men who refer to women in a derogatory manner. If you are going to quote Scripture to the feminists, you pretty much need to do the same thing to the misogynists.

Message Edited by merrylaff on 09-14-2006 12:18 PM

09-13-2006 02:15 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
MartianBachelor
Regular Contributor
MartianBachelor
“Remember, our U.S. society was primarily settled by Judeo-Christian followers….but many of the men on this board don’t even come close to embracing a Judeo Christian ethic.”

Here’s an interesting take on these matters, drawn a bit harshly:

“In the Judeo-Christian system, both women and children are denigrated. They have no value and no rights. In America and formerly in Europe, Christianity defined the woman’s role in society and in the family in a very narrow utilitarian sense. Women were not people, they were servants. One of the jobs assigned to women in Judeo-Christianity is the raising of children. Men do not take part in the raising of children because time spent with children is time wasted for the Judeo-Christian man. The legal system today that automatically gives women preference in child custody cases by virtue of their womanhood is a result of this misogynistic system. The attitude of the system is not really that women have superior child raising skills. The attitude is that women deserve the punishing burden of child raising and that men should be free from this ‘unmanly’ activity.”
– Frederick Hodges

By this line of reasoning feminists who block father’s rights and keep mother custody and men’s child support payments flowing are following a Judeo-Christian ethic. Some one should give `em a call and let them know.

______________________________________________
“The loudest, most strident voices calling women weak, stupid, and incapable of competing in the world at large are the feminists.” – zed the zen priest

09-13-2006 02:28 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
HappyMom
Regular Contributor
HappyMom

merrylaff wrote:
Happy Mom
I so agree with you on nearly everything you say but I think you need to be careful…..surely as a born again believer you also know the Scripture says “Husbands, love you wife as Christ loved the Church”. To even begin to appear to align yourself with those who have no problem with a society where women are oppressed, beaten into submission, and given no opportunity to have a voice is to do a disservice to the authority of Scripture. I am a tradionalist. I believe moms with kids,as much as is possible, should make the choice of staying home and raising them to be productive, responsible adults. I also know that if a voice of balance is not heard, then our society could quickly degenerate into a society where women are objects, not humans.

Remember, our U.S. society was primarily settled by Judeo-Christian followers….but many of the men on this board don’t even come close to embracing a Judeo Christian ethic.

If a husband is commited and loving and provides for his family, and is committed to her if she becomes incapacitated, then I am all for a woman being at home, being the “helpmate” that God originally planned. I am actually so conservative that I prefer not to have a woman song-leader in church…..so as to the military and etc, that should tell you exactly where I stand.

But you know as well as I as well that Jeremiah says “the heart is desperately wicked, who can know it” and that refers to both sexes. Remember, Eve was deceived, but Adam chose, hence sin entered the world through him. That is just scripture –

Remember the woman caught in adultery? What was the real issue there? The issue was the duplicity of the men – because if she had been caught in adultery, why wasn’t the man who was caught there to be stoned as well? Jesus simply told her to go and sin no more because HE knew that there was a double standard and in that situation only forgiveness was truly relevant.

Jesus certainly was a real man. He gave His life. I can’t see that you would endorse in any way the things said by certain individuals on this forum who consistently refer to females as dumb b****** and as idiots. I think a biblical response would be to distance yourself from them as well as from the feminists/feminazis. In Genesis we read that God made male and female both in His image and He said it was good. Therefore, women simply cannot be dumb idiots – God is not into making dumb idiots because He is not a dumb idiot and we are made in His image.

The truth of the matter is, unless the foundational thinking is a Biblical premise then what you or I have in common with either side is nothing. If Scripture is not one’s final authority, then you are unequally yoked in argumentation. To defend these men is the same as to defend the feminists. Both have rejected, ultimately, God’s plan and authority. I kind of feel like a few of these guys would rather their “woman” have an abortion than face the responsibility of raising a child. Not all – some.

So – while you repudiate feminism and all the evil it has wrought(and remember – I pretty much agree with you on that), please repudiate men who refer to women in a derogatory manner. If you are going to quote Scripture to the feminists, you pretty much need to do the same thing to the misogynists.

We are also told in scripture to discern the signs of the times. At this point in our history misbehaving men have been castigate ad nauseum. I know there are bad apples out there, I know some guys here are womanizers, but that ship has sailed. We hear about how bad they are day in and day out to the extent that all men are portrayed as being like that when in fact they are not. They’ve been getting tongue lashings for years for things they haven’t done. Those that have done them for the most part don’t care what I have to say. Furhter, I have no duty to answer for them.

Now is the time to take the misbehaving women to task. That is what I’m here to do, point my finger directly at certain people and “you are responsible.” They been given a free pass to behave like ill disciplined children and the fall out of that is devasting.

09-13-2006 02:31 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
OneSmartChick
Regular Contributor
OneSmartChick

What an idiot I am?  Did you even read what I wrote?  You are the idiot!

I, quite frankly, don’t care one whit about women in Afghanistan or elsewhere.  I see that you don’t care about other women – that is very clear

That is their government and cultural issues to address and deal with, not yours and not ours.  I was using the situation that you guys fear, the bringing of your foreign brides to live with you in the US and having them see they have freedom and choices.  It happens, it is well documented.

Quit trying to export your cultural and value influences to cultures that are different or do not want it.   There was no attempt to do that – again stupid man – read.  I was not speaking of going over and converting anyone.  Muslim women marry non-Muslim men.

What an idiot you are.  You are the idiot

Worry about your own cultural and values before you attempt to force feed your beliefs upon someone else and export that which they do not want.   I don’t have any issues with my values.

09-13-2006 02:43 PM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – As a women, why we work?

Re: As a women, why we work?
tellafriend
Regular Contributor
tellafriend

merrylaff wrote:
Happy Mom
I so agree with you on nearly everything you say but I think you need to be careful…..surely as a born again believer you also know the Scripture says “Husbands, love you wife as Christ loved the Church”. To even begin to appear to align yourself with those who have no problem with a society where women are oppressed, beaten into submission, and given no opportunity to have a voice is to do a disservice to the authority of Scripture. I am a tradionalist. I believe moms with kids,as much as is possible, should make the choice of staying home and raising them to be productive, responsible adults. I also know that if a voice of balance is not heard, then our society could quickly degenerate into a society where women are objects, not humans.

Remember, our U.S. society was primarily settled by Judeo-Christian followers….but many of the men on this board don’t even come close to embracing a Judeo Christian ethic.

If a husband is commited and loving and provides for his family, and is committed to her if she becomes incapacitated, then I am all for a woman being at home, being the “helpmate” that God originally planned. I am actually so conservative that I prefer not to have a woman song-leader in church…..so as to the military and etc, that should tell you exactly where I stand.

But you know as well as I as well that Jeremiah says “the heart is desperately wicked, who can know it” and that refers to both sexes. Remember, Eve was deceived, but Adam chose, hence sin entered the world through him. That is just scripture –

Remember the woman caught in adultery? What was the real issue there? The issue was the duplicity of the men – because if she had been caught in adultery, why wasn’t the man who was caught there to be stoned as well? Jesus simply told her to go and sin no more because HE knew that there was a double standard and in that situation only forgiveness was truly relevant.

Jesus certainly was a real man. He gave His life. I can’t see that you would endorse in any way the things said by certain individuals on this forum who consistently refer to females as dumb b****** and as idiots. I think a biblical response would be to distance yourself from them as well as from the feminists/feminazis. In Genesis we read that God made male and female both in His image and He said it was good. Therefore, women simply cannot be dumb idiots – God is not into making dumb idiots because He is not a dumb idiot and we are made in His image.

The truth of the matter is, unless the foundational thinking is a Biblical premise then what you or I have in common with either side is nothing. If Scripture is not one’s final authority, then you are unequally yoked in argumentation. To defend these men is the same as to defend the feminists. Both have rejected, ultimately, God’s plan and authority. I kind of feel like a few of these guys would rather their “woman” have an abortion than face the responsibility of raising a child. Not all – some.

So – while you repudiate feminism and all the evil it has wrought(and remember – I pretty much agree with you on that), please repudiate men who refer to women in a derogatory manner. If you are going to quote Scripture to the feminists, you pretty much need to do the same thing to the misogynists.

Another textbook example of an idiot woman trying to think on her own without the help of a man.

This dumb biitch actually has the gall to reference the bible which EXPRESSLY FORBIDS this type of female idiocy. And yet this dumb bitch came away with exactly the opposite message. This just goes to show you that dumb biitches aren’t qualified to think on their own..

And since this dumb biitch is so fond of scripture, I guess I, being a MAN, will have to educate yet AGAIN, another retarded female. Enjoy these little biblical gems:

Job 2:10 –He replied, “You are talking like a foolish woman. Shall we accept good from God, and not trouble?”

Proverbs 9:13 –The foolish woman is clamorous; she is stupid, and knoweth nothing. (pretty self explanatory)

1tim 2:11– Let a woman learn in quietness in all subjection. (here we see women admonished to remain under proper male authority as a protection against their own stupidity)

1tim 2:12– but I do not suffer a woman to teach nor to exercise authority over man, but to be in quietness.13 for Adam was formed first, then Eve:  14 and Adam was not deceived; but the woman, having been deceived, was in transgression. (here we see the history of a woman’s idiocy. When she acts independently of man (“i’m an INDEPENDENT WOMAN!”) she ends up being DECEIVED. Very telling. This caused the fall of mankind. Super job there dumb biitch. This is why women are not to hold authority over men or to interpret scripture (“teach”) because their stupidity is their own doom.)

1corinthians 11:3 –But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. (women are shown to be in subjection to men. this is a woman’s proper position.)

1 cor 11:7-11 –For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. For man is not from woman, but woman from man. Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man. For this reason the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head…Nevertheless, neither is man independent of woman, nor woman independent of man, in the Lord. (woman is made FOR man not vise versa)

09-13-2006 03:20 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
hootyhooh
Newbie
hootyhooh

Oh yeah, there goes Miss Independent…NOT! I got one word for the fellas!
PRENUP!

09-13-2006 06:43 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
porkchops38
Regular Contributor
porkchops38
merrylaff said, “If a husband is commited and loving and provides for his family, and is committed to her if she becomes incapacitated, then I am all for a woman being at home, being the “helpmate” that God originally planned. I am actually so conservative that I prefer not to have a woman song-leader in church…..so as to the military and etc, that should tell you exactly where I stand.”

Merrylaff, I have, over the years, met quite a few Christian women with this same mentality as you have, but the mentality is messed-up, please allow me to explain. Basically, your premise is “If the husband does ____, then the woman does ____.” In other words, if the husband does nice things then it makes it easier for his wife to respond in kind. It sounds reasonable on the surface, but this philosophy was torn to shreds about 2,000 years ago by Jesus, for Jesus said, “If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?” (Matthew 5:46-47)

In other words, Jesus is saying that your philosophy of, “If the husband does ___, then it makes it easier for the wife to do ___”, is a philosophy that even irreligious people practice, thus there’s no reward in God’s eye for putting such philosophy to practice. In God’s eye, you’re no different that a pagan if you practice that philosophy. That’s why it does perplex me why so many “christian” women hold this philosophy nowadays.

Beyond that, the new testament of the bible has many instructions regarding males and females within and without the context of marriage, and perhaps the most striking new testament verse on marriage is this verse,
“Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives…” 1 Peter 3:1

The reason I find that verse so striking, is simply because of the sexist nature of the verse, and also because I searched the new testament back and forth and I could not find any verse that iterated the reversed gender equivalent. I mean to say that, this verse says explicitly that wives are to obey their husbands even if their husband is not obeying the word of God, and the reason given is so that the husband will be won to obeying the word of god by the conduct of his wife. When I first read that verse, it blew me away, because I was at one time a product of the feminist school system, and never before until then did I read such sexist language. That’s why I searched the n.t. through and through to find any verse where such genders are reversed with similar commands, but there’s nothing. The only commands in the n.t. for husbands are just generic “husbands, love your wives” stuff, there’s no such verse that says, “husbands, love your wives, so that even if your wife does not obey the word, she may be won to obey the word by your conduct”.

So, in summation, your philosophy of “If the husband does ___, then it will be easier for the wife to do _____”, is actually azz backwards if you’re trying to follow the bible. The bible actually teaches the opposite, that it is the wife that is to set the example of godly living so that as such the hope being the husband will be won by her godly conduct. So in this respect, HappyMom is correct in putting the good majority of the blame of our social problems today upon women, and not men. When I look at myself and my male buddies, it does seem to me that us men today are NOT much different from our forefathers in this country, but the same cannot be said about a good portion of women in America.

Message Edited by porkchops38 on 09-13-2006 06:50 PM

Message Edited by porkchops38 on 09-13-2006 06:51 PM

09-13-2006 06:46 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
toadman
Regular Contributor
toadman

Don’t kid yourselves. A prenup is nothing more than fish-wrap if her attorney can get her to “admit” she was coerced into signing it “under duress.”

09-13-2006 06:53 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
tellafriend
Regular Contributor
tellafriend

porkchops38 wrote:

Beyond that, the new testament of the bible has many instructions regarding males and females within and without the context of marriage, and perhaps the most striking new testament verse on marriage is this verse,
“Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives…” 1 Peter 3:1

The reason I find that verse so striking, is simply because of the sexist nature of the verse, and also because I searched the new testament back and forth and I could not find any verse that iterated the reversed gender equivalent. I mean to say that, this verse says explicitly that wives are to obey their husbands even if their husband is not obeying the word of God, and the reason given is so that the husband will be won to obeying the word of god by the conduct of his wife. When I first read that verse, it blew me away, because I was at one time a product of the feminist school system, and never before until then did I read such sexist language. That’s why I searched the n.t. through and through to find any verse where such genders are reversed with similar commands, but there’s nothing. The only commands in the n.t. for husbands are just generic “husbands, love your wives” stuff, there’s no such verse that says, “husbands, love your wives, so that even if your wife does not obey the word, she may be won to obey the word by your conduct”.

If you realize the bible is not gender based, but God based, it’s understandable why the reverse isn’t true. It has nothing to do with sexism.

Females are ruled by the philosophy of “nice” vs. “mean”, not really caring about right/wrong or good/evil. They care about how THEY feel. This is the philosophy of narcissism. As such, they view the matter of being right/correct/precise as a matter of taking turns. In a female’s eyes, ideally a man should be right 50% of the time and a woman should be right 50% of the time. This of course is utter insanity and childish reasoning. Being right is not a matter of taking turns. It’s a matter of BEING CORRECT, BEING FUNCTIONAL, BEING WISE. Being right is a big responsibility. It’s not just to make a man feel better. Many things are resting on a man’s shoulders including the well-being of the woman. But for women it is ALL ABOUT feeling better.

The reason man is set up as head over the wife and not as an equal is because man is used a picture of Christ and woman is used as a picture of the Church, the “bride of Christ” in the bible. This is why woman comes out of man, and likewise the reason why the church is produced from Christ. For man and woman to be on equal footing would imply that the creation (mankind) was equivalent to the Creator (god).

How often do we hear the naive and foolish battlecry of teenagers everywhere: “i’m old enough, i’m big enough, i’m smart enough to do what you guys (parents) do!” And then that teenager makes the most predictable of mistakes and slips on her own pride. This is exactly the situation we have today, foolish women trying to be equal to men when it’s not possible, practical or helpful.

If I had a child, I wouldn’t ask her advice 50% of the time to figure out how to drive just because it was her turn to be right. Neither would I give in to these tantrum throwing feminazis on this forum just because they feel that they’re equal to men in capacity. We all know this is an utter joke proved day after day in real life.

So, in summation, your philosophy of “If the husband does ___, then it will be easier for the wife to do _____”, is actually azz backwards if you’re trying to follow the bible. The bible actually teaches the opposite, that it is the wife that is to set the example of godly living so that as such the hope being the husband will be won by her godly conduct. So in this respect, HappyMom is correct in putting the good majority of the blame of our social problems today upon women, and not men. When I look at myself and my male buddies, it does seem to me that us men today are NOT much different from our forefathers in this country, but the same cannot be said about a good portion of women in America.

In the verses posted above, it’s the WOMAN who was deceived NOT the man. This shows what happens when women act independently of men’s counsel. They end up being deceived. They end up wrecking everyone’s lives.

Who do used car salesman love seeing more, men or women? I think the answer and the reason is pretty obvious by now.

09-13-2006 07:29 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
Diogetrix
Regular Contributor
Diogetrix

What if the people who are tooling you are actually encouraging you to escape into argument and fantasizing about bible crap?

09-13-2006 08:48 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
amberwilliam
Visitor
amberwilliam

Thank you for all of your opinion!

Business Space

Make friends with you!

09-13-2006 08:54 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
MartianBachelor
Regular Contributor
MartianBachelor
LOVEMAKER V3.1
By Jeff MacGregor

*** Welcome to the LoveMaker! (v3.1 Erosoft Industries, \\C 1993)

*** I am the LOVEMAKER. A personalized, interactive poetry
*** assistance program.

*** At the prompt, please enter your response…

What is your name?

..>JOHN

What a nice name, JOHN. You must be a man.

..>YES

How nice for you. Who is your poem for, JOHN?

..>SHEILA

How nice for SHEILA. She must be a woman?

..>YES

SHEILA must be very special to you, JOHN. Is she?

..>YES

What is the occasion, JOHN?

..>VALENTINE’S DAY

SHEILA is a very lucky woman. I will need information about
SHEILA for a poem that best reflects your deep feelings for
her, JOHN.
What color are her eyes?

..>BLUE

Thank you, JOHN. But could you be more specific? Are they
blue like the sky after a clearing storm? Are they the icy
blue of the far flung fjords, shrouded in mist and mystery?
Are they the steely blue of Walter Gropius’s later Bauhaus
sketchbooks? Are they a cornflower blue that speaks of
Sunday picnics in simpler times?

..>THEY LOOK KIND OF GRAY WHEN SHE’S ANGRY

Thank you, JOHN. What about SHEILA’S hair?

..>BLOND

Thank you, JOHN. But could you be more specific? Is it
ash blond with some auburn like the silky tresses of
Rapunzel? When the sun hits it in a certain way in the
late afternoon does it look like spun gold? Is it the
hard, cheap blond of the streetwise trollop or the
dazzling, brilliant satin of a Renaissance cherubim?

..>I THINK SHE DYES IT

Thank you, JOHN. Are there any other characteristics we
should mention in our poem to SHEILA?

..>
..>
..>

JOHN, are you still there?

..>SKIN?

Thank you, JOHN. But could you be more specific? Is it
fine and alabaster and tightly grained like antique
porcelain, slow-fired by master craftsmen? Or is it pink
and lustrous like the hand-burnished silver one’s
Grandmother might be found polishing with gentle, loving
strokes on a rainy Sunday afternoon?

..>SHE TANS TWICE A WEEK

SHEILA must be very special to you, JOHN. You must have
deep feelings for SHEILA to write her a special VALENTINE’S
DAY poem.

..>YES

How nice for you, JOHN. What kind of poem do you think
SHEILA would like?

..>?

My MENU (Alt+M) offers the following styles. At the prompt,
please choose ONE:

| Couplet | Triplet | Quatrain | Eclogue | Pastoral | Sonnet | Elegy |
|
| Epic | Ballad | Lyric | Ode | Idyll | Haiku | ??? |

..>???

That’s O.K., JOHN. How do you see yourself? Please choose ONE:

| Laureate | Bard | Sonneteer | Troubadour | Meistersinger |
|
| Jongleur | Versifier | Rhapsodist | Lyricist | Other |

..>OTHER

Can you be more specific?

..>I GUESS…

Perhaps if you briefly shared your innermost dreams and
desires, JOHN?

..>
..>
..>
..>

JOHN?

..>I’M THINKING

May I make a suggestion, JOHN?

..>SURE

Perhaps you imagine yourself a hopeless romantic, JOHN.
A man who lives and loves with passion and desire and
appetite. A man who grabs great platters from the groaning
board of this world and eats his fill. A man who takes
what he wants the moment he sees it and makes it his own.
A man who kneads fate in his strong hands, shapes it and
commands it. A man with a reckless bent and the courage of
fire. A man who sees beauty in a raindrop and all the truth
of the universe in the eyes of a child. A man with needs
and wants aflame within him. A man of power and means of
influence, JOHN. A man destined to be the envy of other men.
A man that few can ever understand and fewer still will have
the guts to love. A man of whom it might be said…

Would that Alexander in his age
had but half the measure of his strong
stout heart or
clear hawk’s eyes undimmed and true,
pooled with azure purpose. No earthbound mortal he,
but master o’er each and all…

Would this describe your self-image accurately, JOHN?

..>YES

I thought so. I’ll use my random SEARCH MODE (Alt+S)
to choose an appropriate style for you, JOHN. One that
truly expresses your deep feelings for SHEILA on
VALENTINE’S DAY.

Please wait…

To print poem, please enter command Alt+P at prompt.

..>Alt+P

Dear SHEILA,

Roses are red
Violets are blue
Your hair is blond
and your eyes are gray (when angry)

JOHN

* * * * Thank you for using LOVEMAKER v3.1 from EROSOFT * * * *

______________________________________________
“The loudest, most strident voices calling women weak, stupid, and incapable of competing in the world at large are the feminists.” – zed the zen priest

09-13-2006 10:17 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
Diogetrix
Regular Contributor
Diogetrix

Cassius: “Depleted uranium is barely radioactive. Dont u think they did not bother passing a geiger counter over the shells before mass producing them. Do you have maybe sources linked to depleted uranium ?”

Diogetrix, to himself: “Seldom he smiles; and smiles in such a sort As if he mock’d himself and scorn’d his spirit That could be moved to smile at any thing. Such men as he be never at heart’s ease Whiles they behold a greater than themselves; And therefore are they very dangerous, as depleted uranium, which also glowing not gestates or rots (don’t bother to scan it) like a serpent’s egg.”

All you need to know about depleted uranium (but, you can ask me anything you like) are two things: First, As an alpha emitter it is not very dangerous since alpha particles won’t penetrate clothing and skin, but that has nothing (zero, nada, zilch) to do with ‘internal dose.’ Alpha particles can very easily penetrate cell walls, doing enormous damage to everything from the cell wall onward, including the nucleus and all the genetic material therein. And, about 40% of the depleted uranium used in projectiles and missiles oxidizes into a ceramic particulate of minute size after impact. That dust can be breathed, absorbed, ingested, enters the food chain where it concentrates geometrically at every step, and it has a half life approximately as long as the life of our sun. Second, Everyone involved in the corporate weapons industry, the government, the military, all the state controlled education institutions, and everyone who is appointed, elected, or born to high office, and all the institutions that survive on government or corporate money – they all want you to know the truth about how the US has poisoned the Earth forever, and that the genetic destruction going on now could mean the end of higher forms of life in our biosphere. You don’t think they’d lie to you – right? But, what the hey – these are the same distinguished gentlemen who are bringing us climate change.

09-14-2006 02:10 AM

Re: As a women, why we work?
PatriarchVerlch
Regular Contributor
PatriarchVerlch

Don’t kid yourselves. A prenup is nothing more than fish-wrap if her attorney can get her to “admit” she was coerced into signing it “under duress.”

There has to be a way around that. Video taping her signing the document, around the family, your parents, your sister, the works.

Women want to turn equality off and on and use it to their advantage. Either your a second class citizen who doesn’t commit crimes knowingly, and is like a child. Or you women are the weak men we always wanted to believe you never thought you were. Or your a lady, deserving of the red carpet treatment, and the silver dishes. Your grandmothers would choose the last one. CEO of the house, where a true woman belongs.

Women have been proving for the last 30 years that men have been right for the last 30 centuries!
http://www.verlch.blogspot.com

09-14-2006 02:52 AM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – As a women, why we work?

Re: As a women, why we work?
amberwilliam
Visitor
amberwilliam

Hello, career women may sometimes cranky, impenetrable, while they are independent.
Have you ever read Hilary- the ex-first lady’s book, she’s so great!

I read this article from Business Space, which is also a great forum.
One of its moderator named Barbara, whom i believe is a perfect career woman.
She’s my idol.

Make friends with you!

09-14-2006 05:11 AM

Re: As a women, why we work?
merrylaff
Contributor
merrylaff
Porkchops – this answer is for you specifically since you speak courtesously and thoughtfully.

Point well taken on my phraseology there. Let me rephrase what I was saying…..If in a scenario where the wife has no education and no career training and is in a relationship where she is wholly dependant on her husband for her welfare…..and he is loving to the point that he will stay with her should she become incapacitated….then etc etc. I don’t believe that “if, then” – I was just trying to build a scenario. I believe in a man being the head of the home and the wife being the helpmeet in a true biblical fashion.

As for submission – you know that there is a point where a woman cannot submit and that is when her husband asks her to do something contrary to God’s word….so it is not blanket, blind submission. A good article on that can be found at ladies against feminism…. a fairly good website.

As for your reference to generic abstract commandments to love…..remember that agape love is clearly defined in Scripture –

a) the example of Christ giving his life for his bride and
b) I Corinthians 13 – Love suffereth long, is kind; Love envieth not; love vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1Cr 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1Cr 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
1Cr 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
1Cr 13:8 Love never faileth:

therefore, I think it is much harder to be a man than to be a woman. That is an amazing task men are called to do. Submitting is merely outward…..a woman can submit on the outside. Loving must come from the heart – so in a very real sense men are held to a higher standard in the Scriptures…..

Does that make sense? Again – this discussion came from a remark I made to Happy Mom – I really had no desire to engage any of you guys in this particular discussion. You may or may not be coming from a traditional perspective. As for women teaching men, if the other individual responding with LOUD TYPING were to take any kind of hermeneutics classes he would find he is applying some wrong teaching there. The context of those references about women teaching men is in the context of the local church – hence the Sunday school teacher who was recently removed from her position in New York – remember that? But as for open discussion and friendly debate, that verse hardly applies…..

But thanks for some honest dialogue.

09-14-2006 11:15 AM

Re: As a women, why we work?
merrylaff
Contributor
merrylaff
Happy Mom – You said –
We are also told in scripture to discern the signs of the times. At this point in our history misbehaving men have been castigate ad nauseum. I know there are bad apples out there, I know some guys here are womanizers, but that ship has sailed. We hear about how bad they are day in and day out to the extent that all men are portrayed as being like that when in fact they are not. They’ve been getting tongue lashings for years for things they haven’t done. Those that have done them for the most part don’t care what I have to say. Furhter, I have no duty to answer for them.

Now is the time to take the misbehaving women to task. That is what I’m here to do, point my finger directly at certain people and “you are responsible.” They been given a free pass to behave like ill disciplined children and the fall out of that is devasting”

I don’t disagree with that last post – however, but introducing Scripture to deal with the feminists, I believe you must also use it with those who profane the God-worth of females. Neither can those specific individuals be given a free pass to speak so derogatorily of what God called good. Perhaps it would be better to leave Scripture out of it altogether than to let them (him, in particular) that Scripture backs their position. Otherwise, feminists get a boost, actully…..which is what neither of us want.

09-14-2006 11:24 AM

Re: As a women, why we work?
HappyMom
Regular Contributor
HappyMom
I totally disagree. I don’t really care what they say. I’m here to point out behavior that for sake of my children has to stop. Telling the truth is not giving the feminists an upper hand here. I’m not going to censor myself for the sake of anyone’s feelings.

I think it will be comparatively easy shield my daughter from men who don’t have her best interests in mind. I think it will be harded the hell to shield my boys from dangerous women. I see the future of my boys in some of these decent men and it enrages me to think of the garbage they will have put up with.

09-14-2006 11:33 AM

Re: As a women, why we work?
MartianBachelor
Regular Contributor
MartianBachelor
I’m guessing y’all have seen this (The Weekly Nutwatch 16 : Ladies Against Feminism).

I’m sure there are plenty of thoroughly secular men who get the gist of what you’re talking about, but approximately zero women. So the question is, how do you go about talking to them without moralizing and quoting scripture (the surest way to turn them off quickly and make them want to dismiss you)? I suppose you’ve noticed that they don’t much listen to men either – almost by definition, you have to be pro-feminist to be allowed in the secular camp. So, do they just have to figure it out for themselves (which will probably never happen)?

Message Edited by MartianBachelor on 09-14-2006 09:49 AM

______________________________________________
“The loudest, most strident voices calling women weak, stupid, and incapable of competing in the world at large are the feminists.” – zed the zen priest

09-14-2006 11:42 AM

Re: As a women, why we work?
merrylaff
Contributor
merrylaff
I guess that is where we can agree to disagree. I ,too, am concerned for my son and who he might end up with, especially since he is such a loving,committed, giving guy and he does want to be the sole provider for his future family – but I cannot give a pass to these guys who come across as abusive. Their premise is not Scripture, but they are happy to use Scripture to their own ends.

And really, that begs the question…..if there is not an absolute (for instance, the Bible), on what basis does any of this argument stand? It appears that men in many countries abuse their privilege of headship, thereby driving women to seek freedom from oppression and abuse. Those men sell their daughters into sexual slavery or beat them for having their eyes showing…. Then the pendulum swings far to the other side and there is the feminization of society…..and that is because there is not an absolute from which to argue. A balance must come a standard…and that standard cannot come from anywhere other than from within the hearts of people.

Without a proper understanding of headship and authority….a great many men will become beasts. Without a proper understanding of submission, women will become beasts. The human heart is not good, in and of itself….so ultimately, might will prevail….whether intellectual might or physical might. And what a sorry day it will be.

09-14-2006 11:46 AM

Re: As a women, why we work?
HappyMom
Regular Contributor
HappyMom
I see your point Martian, but I can’t really come at this from any other angle. I believe things things are true because I believe they are from God. I think it would be manipulative and dishonest to go after it from some viewpoint that I don’t understand or support. That is like when someone tries to get you into thier by just telling you a little bit about what they believe, then you get in the pew and its the old bait and switch. Then you just wind up with a bunch of people who don’t really believe the same thing for the sake of numbers.

I don’t think I can change there minds but I can tell them the truth. They will either understand it or not. If I sugar coat or leave a big chunk of it out then what will it matter if they only embrace a watered down version of the truth? They won’t behave unless they take the full scope of the uglieness of this behavior to heart and look in the mirror and say to themselves “I did this and it was wrong.”

Or are you talking about something different, like one on one in my real life? I’m actually not so confrontational in person

09-14-2006 11:52 AM

Re: As a women, why we work?
merrylaff
Contributor
merrylaff
Well, Martian Bachelor – I think your question is directed to me….so
here is my answer. I know alot of young women who would love to be in a tradional marriage….but they are not going to marry a man who does not share their faith. The reason they “get it” is because they don’t have an issue with “self-esteem” which is a totally dumb concept. They understand their “God-worth” and comprehend that in the eyes of their Creator, they have an amazing and wonderful privilege of being a potential helpmate to a wonderful guy. However, if the guy doesn’t see the economic order from a biblical basis, they have nothing at all in common. If he wants to be the head just for an ego trip or just because he is a dominating personality or just because he is a mysoginist, then their role will never be fulfilled anyway…..because those guys don’t really want a helpmeet – they want a slave. Does that make sense?

09-14-2006 11:55 AM

Re: As a women, why we work?
HappyMom
Regular Contributor
HappyMom
One more thing Martian, I don’t much talk to “them.” As undesirable as you all find them as wives, I find them equally unsatisfactory as friends. Women can be cruel to each other in a way that is uniquely female.

09-14-2006 12:24 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
tellafriend
Regular Contributor
tellafriend

merrylaff wrote:
Well, Martian Bachelor – I think your question is directed to me….so
here is my answer. I know alot of young women who would love to be in a tradional marriage….but they are not going to marry a man who does not share their faith. The reason they “get it” is because they don’t have an issue with “self-esteem” which is a totally dumb concept. They understand their “God-worth” and comprehend that in the eyes of their Creator, they have an amazing and wonderful privilege of being a potential helpmate to a wonderful guy. However, if the guy doesn’t see the economic order from a biblical basis, they have nothing at all in common. If he wants to be the head just for an ego trip or just because he is a dominating personality or just because he is a mysoginist, then their role will never be fulfilled anyway…..because those guys don’t really want a helpmeet – they want a slave. Does that make sense?

As if an idiot woman is going to be able to tell the difference. Women who claim that men are on ego trips only say this because they themselves have the biggest egos around. This is why women protect their self-esteem at all costs. These aren’t “godly” women. They’re the women that God warns AGAINST in the bible. In the bible you can see many instances of God warning against letting an idiot woman decide or teach anything. This is a precaution that most women and men have failed to heed which has lead to today’s terrible situation.

You know a woman is an idiot if she EVER uses the term “misogynist.” This is an irresponsible child blaming everyone else for the problems SHE CREATES.

09-14-2006 12:37 PM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – As a women, why we work?

Re: As a women, why we work?
moneyneversleep
Regular Contributor
moneyneversleep

You are obviously quite an idiot.  Try concerning yourself with the poor, the uneducated, the indigent and less privelaged here before you put on your Don Quixote armor and run around with your head up your *ss assuming that people in other nations want you there meddling in their affairs.  What a complete imbecile you.  How self absorbed you are.   It is obvious by your rantings and the foam coming from your mouth as you speak that you are fat and fugly and angry that you are.  I am sure that you and Karen Hughes, that other complete imbecile prancing around in drag, have much in common.  Try suicide.  It’s quicker and cleaner.

Point of fact:   Yes, most men don’t care what women think. We are preoccupied with the following:  work, career advancement, getting l*id for the least amount of money possible and not calling the ladies back, NOT getting married or procreating, collecting wine and other toys.   Try telling someone who cares.

09-14-2006 12:45 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
moneyneversleep
Regular Contributor
moneyneversleep

Sorry, I am an agnostic.   Until there is empirical, scientific proof of a supreme being I will comfort myself with the knowledge that evolution is scientific fact.

09-14-2006 12:47 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
moneyneversleep
Regular Contributor
moneyneversleep

Methods to avoid having a prenuptial agreement declared invalid or having been signed under duress:

1.  Insure that the prenuptial agreement is reviewed by counsel representing said future wife and, if necessary, provide the funds necessary to have said counsel review it.
2.  Insure that no less than 6 months have passed from time prenup is executing to time of marriage.  If less than 6 months it can be disputed.
3.  Insure that some changes requested by counsel for said future wife are incorporated into agreement to demonstrate adequacy of counsel and sufficient time to review.
4.  Have a paper trail.

09-14-2006 12:49 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
MartianBachelor
Regular Contributor
MartianBachelor
Ok, one a time…

“I can’t really come at this from any other angle. I believe things things are true because I believe they are from God. I think it would be manipulative and dishonest to go after it from some viewpoint that I don’t understand or support.”

Fair enough. I guess you know some people don’t respect your playing the God or Truth trump cards on them, because they view that as an attempt at manipulation, since they’re not playing the same game you are.

I know alot of young women who would love to be in a tradional marriage….

This is approximately what I hear when I tune into the non-feminist or quasi-pop-feminist one-sided “conversation” in the mainstream, namely woman who say they want a monogamous, stable relationship with kids who achieve and stay out of trouble, a supportive husband, and all the other conventionalities of moderately affluent middle-class american life. These women tend not to have thought much about the sorts of issues we’ve covered here the last several weeks, so they don’t take strong stands one way or the other. They know what they want and that’s about it. They tend not to see the larger things going on which are making it increasingly difficult for them to get what they want, though they do tend to feel the pull at times in directions which make them uncomfortable, or at least ambivalent about what they’re doing. Their interests by and large aren’t served by feminism, but they’ve yet to realize this in any significant numbers; if they did, they might be a potent force for social change.

…but they are not going to marry a man who does not share their faith.

Again, fair enough. But there are many inter-faith marriages of many different flavors, and I don’t think they have a much higher failure rate than the average. So, if she and some non-believing or differently believing man arrive at effectively congruent goals for the two of them, even if through different means, and perhaps using different languages, perhaps she should re-think her stance/requirements. I only say this because as I understand things, woman outnumber men by a fairly large percentage these days (a fact which doesn’t jive with feminist claims about power-hungry males, patriarchal religions, at all that jazz).

“However, if the guy doesn’t see the economic order from a biblical basis, they have nothing at all in common. … because those guys don’t really want a helpmeet – they want a slave. Does that make sense?”

Frankly, no.

I suppose what I was attempting to get at was the observation that there are plenty of non-religious, non-traditional (and even fairly “liberal” men who are critical of feminism, but no counterparts on the female side. Every anti-feminist woman I’ve run across has been of a conservative, (and more likely than not) religious bent. So I guess my question is, where are all the secular anti-feminist women, and is there a way for women such as yourselves to talk about your issues with feminism and the larger social trends surrounding same without making secular women feel threatened by an undertone that you’re trying to convert them? It’s difficult for any man to do so since our reputations have been thoroughly trashed the last several decades (as witnessed even by your “slave” comment); as women you still have some credibility and respect with other women.

______________________________________________
“The loudest, most strident voices calling women weak, stupid, and incapable of competing in the world at large are the feminists.” – zed the zen priest

09-14-2006 12:53 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
HappyMom
Regular Contributor
HappyMom
So I guess my question is, where are all the secular anti-feminist women, and is there a way for women such as yourselves to talk about your issues with feminism and the larger social trends surrounding same without making secular women feel threatened by an undertone that you’re trying to convert them?
Well, I believe in presdestination so I don’t want to try converting anyone to anything(which could be a very long but also very off topic discssionin its own right). I can just tell them what I see and they can listen or not. So like the Puritans before me (who fought tooth and nail for the first amendment to be included in the constitution despite being used as by-word for oppression nowadays) I am more intereseted in salvation than civilization. I see it as a natural by-product of this way of life rather than an objective.

I think we are just seeing the true nature of women not in subjection to men or God(I know you disagree here.) We have a runaway train situation now.

When I have brought it up to these people, on mother message boards and face to face I have been told that I am ignorant, uneducated, brainwashed, unable to think for myself, have no self-esteem etc. So you see they go after me personally and ignore the issue. Even if all those things are true about me, it doesn’t change the truth. But they aren’t reasonable.

I also know secular stay at home mom types and they tend to have a variety of views on this. In general, I haven’t heard enough of them on same page about how they and their husbands are actaully hurt by these laws and this cultural climate. Some see it, but they also don’t agree with everything and some have problems with the submit to your husband aspect but not all. But reaching them, especially the ones with sons, would probably boost your cause. You can find them on cloth diapering and home schooling forums. The crunchy-granola ones will not agree with you however, they are hard-core feminists by and large. Alos, you can look for young women aimlessly wondering around college campuses becuase they have been told all their life that they can do anything and they really belive they ought to go to college but their heart isn’t in it(that was me). This is where ‘men’s studies’ would come in I suppose.

I wanted to edit to add: When I say I’ve brought it up, I mean just feminism in general having let women down, not any religious commentary along with it.

Message Edited by HappyMom on 09-14-2006 02:20 PM

09-14-2006 01:21 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
merrylaff
Contributor
merrylaff
Martian Bachelor
Ok – first I would recommend the comment just posted under the “how much longer can we afford feminism” title – I have cut and pasted it here under my comments. I think it is well done and well put. I have no idea if this lady is religious or not – but there are women of secular backgrounds who do “get it” – they are just harder to find. This writer speaks of staying at home from a neo-feminist position….oh no….is that opening a can of worms? I don’t perceive that she thinks she HAS to stay home but she perceives that staying home is the BEST thing for her to do.

As to you saying that your reputation has been trashed by my “slave” comment….puhleeez….I don’t get that sense about you but could you honestly recommend to any female that you are helping guide about a future partner to even consider someone like the individual on this board who refers to women as nothing but “stupid b******” ? That kind of guy is not looking for a helpmeet or a partner. I don’t believe the average joe is looking for a slave – not at all. But you know that in some other countries, women are slaves….there is no other word for it. That was perhaps miscommunication on my part.

Finally in regard to this statement…

“They tend not to see the larger things going on which are making it increasingly difficult for them to get what they want, though they do tend to feel the pull at times in directions which make them uncomfortable, or at least ambivalent about what they’re doing. Their interests by and large aren’t served by feminism, but they’ve yet to realize this in any significant numbers; if they did, they might be a potent force for social change.”

I don’t like to be critical but we have a society that only sees what goes on immediately around them. The big picture is lost on alot of people. Yes I do talk to women as often as I can about their roles…..I even encouraged a young lady recently to change her future education plans based on her desire to be a stay at home mom. Incidentally, I was just asked via this messaging board to appear on some tv show or something to defend my position…. ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? There is no way I am going to show my face – my friends in my world know how I feel and that is sufficient. I don’t want to take on the feminazis – maybe once my kids have grown I will speak out more openly. Right now – they are my priority and I have plenty of discussions with them.

Don’t be totally discourage – here in the South and probably in the Midwest, I think that while feminists have made inroads, there are still alot of tradionalists. As to how to meet them….why don’t you start an online dating site for guys who want stay at home wives and girls who want to be such….You might be surprised at how it catches on!!

The following is that cut and pasted response I spoke of.

“How much longer can we afford feminism?

If you ask me, feminism messed up from the very beginning. Feminism said they wanted equal status for women, but in truth, what they wanted was for women to be able to BE men. Feminists did nothing toward making the things women traditionally do valued. Did feminists make sure mothers that stay home have a societal safety net? Did feminists do anything to promote the value of mothering or homekeeping as a career choice? Did feminism find ways to get our society to value the unpaid but extremely important work of raising kids, keeping schedules, caring for the elderly, and doing family support? NOPE.

Feminism has actually been very detrimental to women because it has actually made the things women do even less valued. For example, child care and mothering is now so low in value here that affluent Americans pay undereducated, often third world workers to do it.

I am a stay-at-home mother. That is my career choice. What has feminism done to support MY career choice? Where is my Social Security? Where are my retirement benefits for doing the excellent job of raising four future working, tax-paying, voting, policy making consumers? Where is my retirement for keeping my family stable, supporting my husband both emotionally and physically with my efficient running of our stable household? My efforts save tax payers money, (no kids in prison or needing appointed defense lawyers or state paid psychological counseling) free up the courts from innumerable divorce cases, free up lawyers for other cases, use up less resources and energy because we only drive one car, and for all that savings and efficiency, society gets four well educated, emotionally stable, physically healthy human beings that will go on to work and pay more taxes into the system. What has feminism done to make what I do more valued in my society? Nothing.

Instead, feminism has made women want to be men and have what men have. Divorce has risen extremely high as a result of feminism. Children are valued so little, people don’t even take their needs into account anymore. The adult, me, me, me point of view permeates everything. Women have long been the gender that looks at things in long term ways because women were the ones that did the child bearing and rearing. Child rearing is a long term exercise but now that women have become men and only value what men value, the last ones to keep our sights firmly on the long term view have walked away from their duty to humanity by adopting the male- short term gains view. Children suffer terribly from this and the result is more kids are on behavioral drugs, in counseling or having real problems more than ever before. (Eberstadt, Mary “Home Alone America”)

This is not to say women cannot do the things men do, many can. Even so, when women walk away from the work of child rearing and homekeeping, the void is not being filled by anyone that values these roles and the next generation and our society as a whole suffers and has degenerated as a result.

We cannot afford feminism as it stands now. We need a new model of feminism that addresses motherhood as a career choice and values that. Feminism needs to work for social safety nets for mothers and caregivers. Feminism needs to work for retirement benefits for career mothers. As a society, we need to stop thinking in terms of what brings in money and think in terms of what improves society as a whole.

I am a woman that has chosen mothering as my career choice. I am as intelligent any man but I don’t need to BE a man to prove that. I don’t wish to squander my intelligence on paid work to be like a man. I choose to use my intelligence to raise my children, be the hub of my family and support my children, my husband, myself and my community. My contributions to society should be not only recognized, but supported by feminism. Is it wrong that I choose to use my smarts and talent in these ways instead of doing paid work and trying to be a man? Why is it bad to like being a woman and doing women’s things? For me, it is not bad. My family and my society are benefitting in my choice; feminism should make sure I get supported in what I do.

09-14-2006 01:23 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
tellafriend
Regular Contributor
tellafriend

merrylaff wrote:
Martian Bachelor
Ok – first I would recommend the comment just posted under the “how much longer can we afford feminism” title – I have cut and pasted it here under my comments. I think it is well done and well put. I have no idea if this lady is religious or not – but there are women of secular backgrounds who do “get it” – they are just harder to find. This writer speaks of staying at home from a neo-feminist position….oh no….is that opening a can of worms? I don’t perceive that she thinks she HAS to stay home but she perceives that staying home is the BEST thing for her to do.

As to you saying that your reputation has been trashed by my “slave” comment….puhleeez….I don’t get that sense about you but could you honestly recommend to any female that you are helping guide about a future partner to even consider someone like the individual on this board who refers to women as nothing but “stupid b******” ? That kind of guy is not looking for a helpmeet or a partner. I don’t believe the average joe is looking for a slave – not at all. But you know that in some other countries, women are slaves….there is no other word for it. That was perhaps miscommunication on my part.

To the “dumb biitch” who keeps referring to the guy who refers to dumb biitches as dumb bitches, I have this comment that you may forward to said dumb biitch at your convenience:

Hey dumb biitch, you refuse to acknowledge you’re a dumb biitch because you ARE a dumb biitch. If you don’t acknowledge the problem, you’re like an alcoholic in denial. Now there’s no possibility of you recovering from your “dumb biitch” illness. Since you’re such a biblical dumb biitch, you should have paid attention to the verses I already posted, but like most dumb biitches, you want to have your cake and eat it too. This hypocrisy is exactly why the feminist movement will cave in on itself.

And you sound just like a feminazi when you talk about women in other countries being “slaves.” That’s according to the feminazi mentality where doing what your husband tells you is considered “slavery”. I guess that means that when parents tell their children not to cross the street without them, they are being “slave drivers.” Your idiot feminazi mentality prevents you from seeing the deceitfulness of your intentions. You are just a childish dumb biitch who doesn’t understand the proper subjection of females to males.

Dumb biitch, there will ALWAYS be abuses of power. Where males properly care for females who ARE in subjection to them, there will be males who mistreat females in subjection to them as well. You dumb biitches think the solution is to throw the baby out with the bathwater. You think that to prevent one female from being mistreated, we should fuuck up the entire system for ALL females. So now there is no possibility for ANY female to be mistreated. But what you DUMB BIITCHES don’t realize is that by doing so, you PREVENT females from receiving the benefit of those men who DO properly care for the females who were in subjection to them. It seems as if you can no longer use pithy short sayings like “throw the baby out with the bathwater” to convey age old wisdom to dumb biitches. These dumb biitches need a step by step cliff notes version of the truth. This is what happens when dumb biitches start relying on themselves to figure things out. They end up nowhere fast. Dumb biitches require MEN to understand ANYTHING properly. This is what the bible says if you believe in God, and this is what common sense dictates and experience has shown if you do not.

Who the fuuck are you to say or assume what I’m looking for. You’re too dumb to even comprehend the arguments being presented and now you think you’re qualified to understand my intentions? You’re too fuucking stupid to even understand context, what makes you think you’re going to be able to understand my vernacular, idioms, or meaning being that mentally deficient? Being an idiot woman, you don’t require any reason. All you require is assumption and a loud naggy mouth. Which is why you’re an unattractive dumb biitch. I’m attractive to females because I know my role as a male. And it’s not to defer to dumb biitches like you who have no idea what you’re babbling about.

Finally in regard to this statement…

“They tend not to see the larger things going on which are making it increasingly difficult for them to get what they want, though they do tend to feel the pull at times in directions which make them uncomfortable, or at least ambivalent about what they’re doing. Their interests by and large aren’t served by feminism, but they’ve yet to realize this in any significant numbers; if they did, they might be a potent force for social change.”

I don’t like to be critical but we have a society that only sees what goes on immediately around them. The big picture is lost on alot of people.

Are you trying to be ironic? You sound like a typical dumb biitch assuming you’re on the same level as a man in reasoning and understanding. These are the type of women who assume they are “just one of the guys.” These are the type of women who assume they are the “exception to the rule.” Blah blah blah.

Shut up and get back in the kitchen and bake yourself another brain cell.

Yes I do talk to women as often as I can about their roles…..I even encouraged a young lady recently to change her future education plans based on her desire to be a stay at home mom. Incidentally, I was just asked via this messaging board to appear on some tv show or something to defend my position…. ARE YOU KIDDING ME???

Yes the feminazi media would have no problem putting a dumb biitch on tv since tv is the domain of dumb biitches.

Put any real man here on tv and you’ll end up with an embarrassed dumb biitch with egg on her face trying pitifully to put together a coherent thought in his presence. Feminists and women in general are not equipped to argue with real men. They may browbeat and nag lesser effeminate emasculated pussified men. But you will definitely be put in check by a REAL MAN as already demonstarted on this forum.

There is no way I am going to show my face – my friends in my world know how I feel and that is sufficient. I don’t want to take on the feminazis – maybe once my kids have grown I will speak out more openly. Right now – they are my priority and I have plenty of discussions with them.

“How much longer can we afford feminism?

If you ask me, feminism messed up from the very beginning. Feminism said they wanted equal status for women, but in truth, what they wanted was for women to be able to BE men.

Which is exactly what you’re guilty of–trying to BE a man. You’re NOT a man. You’re a dumb biitch. When you can finally and bravely acknowledge the problem, then we can talk about finding a solution to your idiocy.

Feminism is not just about wanting equal pay and equal rights. It’s about wanting to be RIGHT like MEN. It’s about wanting to be AS IMPORTANT as MEN. It’s about wanting the same level of RESPECT as MEN. But what you dumb biitches don’t realize is that all of these things come with a PRICE which dumb biitches are not willing to pay and NOT CAPABLE OF PAYING.

This is primarily about FUNCTION. Men FUNCTION according to their superior mental capacity. We are RIGHT because we’re SUPPOSED TO BE RIGHT YOU DUMB BIITCH. The responsibility of the entire world is on OUR shoulders NOT YOURS, YOU DUMB BIITCH. If you were right like men but with the exception that we were responsible for your mistakes, society would cease to FUNCTION. Those who are RIGHT carry the responsibility on THEIR shoulders. This is a heavy burden to bear. That’s why men are stronger. They are BUILT FOR THEIR FUNCTION– TO BEAR THE WEIGHT OF YOU IDIOT WOMEN.

Women who realize this and obey this natural law naturally receive the benefit of being in proper subjection to a man. They receive the protection of that man (man’s RESPONSIBILITY.) They receive the love of that man (again, man’s RESPONSIBILITY.) They receive the provision from that man (again, man’s RESPONSIBILITY.) They receive the counsel of that man (again, man’s RESPONSIBILITY.)

When idiot women rebel against this natural relationship, they assume ALL the responsibility that only men are intended to assume because that is their natural FUNCTION. Women are not able to protect themselves– the current climate of fear among women is ample proof of that. Women aren’t able to provide suitable love for themselves–we already know that self-love has caused self-hatred among women seen in the myriad of their social and physical disorders. Women obviously can’t provide for themselves–the hypocritical feminazi-based legal system acknowledges their deficiency even if they remain in denial about it. Women in no way are qualified to counsel themselves as the self-help section in bookstores continues to grow, while actual female wisdom continues to shrink. This is what happens when you rebel against nature. Nature has its own version of the middle finger.

This is not to say women cannot do the things men do, many can. Even so, when women walk away from the work of child rearing and homekeeping, the void is not being filled by anyone that values these roles and the next generation and our society as a whole suffers and has degenerated as a result.

Sheer IDIOCY. Women CANNOT do the things men can do. You just ranted about how feminism hasn’t helped you and then you keep applying the feminist mentality which states that men and women are interchangable. This is ridiculous. Women are incompetent to the Nth degree. Your fundamental lack of reasoning skills are a testament to this fact.

We cannot afford feminism as it stands now. We need a new model of feminism that addresses motherhood as a career choice and values that. Feminism needs to work for social safety nets for mothers and caregivers. Feminism needs to work for retirement benefits for career mothers. As a society, we need to stop thinking in terms of what brings in money and think in terms of what improves society as a whole.

We don’t need more feminism. We need more men to stand up and be REAL MEN who refuse to let dumb biitches run their lives. This will solve the feminazi problem. We need a generation of men who get their balls back. You idiot women are not going to find any solutions on your own. You idiot women are the reason we got into this bad shape in the first place. The solution is to shut up and let men do the thinking for a change.

I am a woman that has chosen mothering as my career choice. I am as intelligent any man but I don’t need to BE a man to prove that.

NO YOU STUPID BIITCH, that’s exactly the point. YOU’RE NOT INTELLIGENT. That’s why you dumb biitches always repeat that mantra again and again to anyone that will hear it. Men are intelligent. Women are not intelligent. You dumb biitches aren’t not meant to make important decisions. That’s not your FUNCTION. You have a necessary function but right now it is void. We are looking for job applicants right now. Need women who want to be women: apply within.

09-14-2006 03:00 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
HappyMom
Regular Contributor
HappyMom
“And you sound just like a feminazi when you talk about women in other countries being “slaves.” That’s according to the feminazi mentality where doing what your husband tells you is considered “slavery”. I guess that means that when parents tell their children not to cross the street without them, they are being “slave drivers.” Your idiot feminazi mentality prevents you from seeing the deceitfulness of your intentions. You are just a childish dumb biitch who doesn’t understand the proper subjection of females to males.”

Great analogy.

They won’t ever swallow thier pride and admit they are wrong. They won’t look in the mirror and recognize any of their own wrongdoings. They seem to have no conscious. They won’t be reasonable as we see each time a feminist comes here to whine.

I really think that unless the men take the country back by force there can be no change. I just don’t see a way to change the laws otherwise.

Its in your hands guys!

09-14-2006 03:17 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
porkchops38
Regular Contributor
porkchops38

merrylaff wrote:
Porkchops – this answer is for you specifically since you speak courtesously and thoughtfully.

Point well taken on my phraseology there. Let me rephrase what I was saying…..If in a scenario where the wife has no education and no career training and is in a relationship where she is wholly dependant on her husband for her welfare…..and he is loving to the point that he will stay with her should she become incapacitated….then etc etc. I don’t believe that “if, then” – I was just trying to build a scenario. I believe in a man being the head of the home and the wife being the helpmeet in a true biblical fashion.

As for submission – you know that there is a point where a woman cannot submit and that is when her husband asks her to do something contrary to God’s word….so it is not blanket, blind submission. A good article on that can be found at ladies against feminism…. a fairly good website.

As for your reference to generic abstract commandments to love…..remember that agape love is clearly defined in Scripture –

a) the example of Christ giving his life for his bride and
b) I Corinthians 13 – Love suffereth long, is kind; Love envieth not; love vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1Cr 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1Cr 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
1Cr 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
1Cr 13:8 Love never faileth:

therefore, I think it is much harder to be a man than to be a woman. That is an amazing task men are called to do. Submitting is merely outward…..a woman can submit on the outside. Loving must come from the heart – so in a very real sense men are held to a higher standard in the Scriptures…..

Does that make sense? Again – this discussion came from a remark I made to Happy Mom – I really had no desire to engage any of you guys in this particular discussion. You may or may not be coming from a traditional perspective. As for women teaching men, if the other individual responding with LOUD TYPING were to take any kind of hermeneutics classes he would find he is applying some wrong teaching there. The context of those references about women teaching men is in the context of the local church – hence the Sunday school teacher who was recently removed from her position in New York – remember that? But as for open discussion and friendly debate, that verse hardly applies…..

But thanks for some honest dialogue.

I don’t believe that your “if…then” previously was a matter of phraseology alone, it still seems to me to be moreso a matter of selective interpretation of bible verses. For example, the gist of my previous exhortation to you was that of 1 Peter 3:1 — “Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives…”

However, you totally ignored any discussion of that verse, that’s why it seems to me that it’s not simply an issue of phraseology on your part, but rather an issue of selective interpretation. Like I said previously, I cannot find the reversed gender equivalent of this verse anywhere in the new testament, so this verse is sexist and it is bold.

As for the bible’s instructions about women teaching men, it is my contention that since women very obviously have god-given brains that produce thoughts, feelings, etc., that it would be absurd that any “god” would seek to silence women altogether, with the sole exception being in the church assembly based upon those bible verses stating specifically. Thus, when a woman shares her thoughts, feelings, etc., with men, I don’t view that as anything close to “teaching”. “Teaching”, implies an authority structure, thus it requires a “teacher” and a “student”. Only a feminized man would ever listen to a woman as if such a woman is his “teacher”, whereas mature adult men will listen to a woman if he so desires and then go from there, there’s no need to imply that just because a man listens to a woman’s thoughts or feelings that such a man is somehow being “taught”. Keep in mind also, that in our society today, we don’t consider males under 18 as “adult men” for legal purposes, thus I don’t believe that the bible’s prohibition of women teaching men applies to children under 18 in our society. Also, keep in mind, that just because someone speaks, it doesn’t automatically guarantee that someone else is bound to listen — that concept seems to escape many women today, especially women of the feminist mindset who think they somehow have a god-given right to be heard, i.e. “I am woman, hear me roar!”. The bible actually states that women are prohibited from teaching or “exercising authority” over a man, and the verse that says such, makes no exclusions as to what type of setting, thus it leads the reader to believe that such a prohibition applies to all of mankind and its’ institutions and not simply in a “church setting”. That verse even states the reason why such prohibition is for all of mankind, and the reason given is simply because Eve was deceived. So, I have no idea how you go from “eve was deceived” thus women are not allowed to “teach and exercise authority over a man” ONLY inside the church setting. The only possible way to take that verse and apply it only to a church setting, would be to ignore the words themselves, and ignore the context, and add words that don’t exist (church setting) to result in such a selective interpretation.

I would also argue against your contention that it is not a “blind, blanket, submission”, because there are too many biblical examples of “blind, blanket, submission”, so you’re walking on very very thin ice, with such an assertion. Just for starters, Abraham was willing to sacrafice his son Isaac — that has to be the ultimate “blind, blanket, submission,” to God, for a father to sacrafice his beloved son simply because God told him to do so. Also, isn’t that what the story of Jesus is all about, a father sacraficing his beloved son? So, when the new testament lays out the picture of submission, it basically says husbands are to submit to God, and wives are to submit to their husbands — even if such husband is a husband that does not “obey the word”. That sounds like a “blind, blanket submission”. Like I say, it seems to me that you wish to find “loopholes” in the bible as to why,when,where that it’s not necessary for you to comply with “submission”. We could argue hypothetical examples ad infiniti ad nauseum, it would serve no purpose. Just suffice it to say, that the “blind, blanket submission” is just what the bible teaches, and your hypothetical examples arguing the opposite, will be just that — nothing more than hypothetical examples. The bible indicates to me that God calls for nothing less than a “blind, blanket submission” from men to God, and calls for the same from women to their husbands. Jesus said that no one can serve two masters, so when a woman is called to submit to her husband, she can’t have another master logically, biblically. That verse in 1 Peter even states that Abraham’s wife called Abraham “master”, and then instructs women to do “likewise”. When’s the last time you’ve ever heard a wife refer to her husband as “master”? For me, the last time I heard anything close to that was when I was about 10 years old and watching “I Dream of Jeannie” re-runs after school.

This is precisely the problem with Christianity today. Five out of 6 American men today describe themselves as “christian” when asked their religious identity, but only 2 of those 6 regularly attend church. Churches today in America have been over-run with feminist interpretations, and men like me who see the glaring inconsistincies are just not showing up on Sunday at church. I haven’t set foot in a church in a dog’s age myself.

As for your ideas about which gender has a more difficult role to fill, I would suffice to say that it seems to me that if god intended each gender a role to fill, then it would go to reason that god would give each gender the specific traits needed to fill that role. So, discussing which gender has a more difficult time of things, could only comes from a feminist-induced mindset. It wouldn’t be characteristic of a “fair and just” God, to patently give one gender a more difficult “row to hoe” so to speak.

Anyways, I’m not trying to be harsh here, I’m just sharing my understanding of things. Hopefully you find something I said to be beneficial to you, otherwise please accept my apologies for wasting your time.

09-14-2006 03:50 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
merrylaff
Contributor
merrylaff
Can we do this one issue at a time? Not trying to do anything here but have a decent conversation…..

Remember, Scripture says we are to submit to the governing authorities…right? And yet, Peter and John, when confronted with the situation of being asked to do something contrary to God’s word, said “we have to obey God rather than man”. Therefore, my premise is that women submit except in cases where their husband requires something of them that is morally contradictory to His revealed Word – i.e. watching pornography, getting drunk, etc. There are places where a woman has to be submissive to the Lord first….

It has been my observation that in the most long lasting marriages – submission was never an issue. I never once heard my dad say to my mom “you MUST submit” ( they were married over 50 years and were very traditional) and I never have heard any other great husbands say that. There is just a mutual unspoken understanding that the roles are clearly defined and in that relationship, the two of them eagerly embrace those roles.

09-14-2006 04:02 PM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – As a women, why we work?

Re: As a women, why we work?
HappyMom
Regular Contributor
HappyMom
From John Gill http://www.freegrace.net/gill/:

1 Timothy 2:12

Ver. 12. But I suffer not a woman to teach, &c,] They may teach in private, in their own houses and families; they are to be teachers of good things, **bleep** 2:3. They are to bring up their children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord; nor is the law or doctrine of a mother to be forsaken, any more than the instruction of a father; see Pr 1:8. Timothy, no doubt, received much advantage, from the private teachings and instructions of his mother Eunice, and grandmother Lois; but then women are not to teach in the church; for that is an act of power and authority, and supposes the persons that teach to be of a superior degree, and in a superior office, and to have superior abilities to those who are taught by them:

nor to usurp authority over the man; as not in civil and political things, or in things relating to civil government; and in things domestic, or the affairs of the family; so not in things ecclesiastical, or what relate to the church and government of it; for one part of rule is to feed the church with knowledge and understanding; and for a woman to take upon her to do this, is to usurp an authority over the man: this therefore she ought not to do,

but to be in silence; to sit and hear quietly and silently, and learn, and not teach, as in 1Ti 2:11.

09-14-2006 04:21 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
porkchops38
Regular Contributor
porkchops38
I perused that site “ladiesagainstfeminism” a long time ago. I got bored reading story after story of women who had messed up their lives because they fell for the lies of feminism and finally “seen the light” at a later age, usually when they are late 20’s or later. I read their stories, and I applaud them for waking up to the lies of feminism, but I don’t believe they still get the whole picture. It seems to me that they are simply looking at things totally from a self-interest perspective. There’s nothing wrong with self-interest per se, but when you see people rant and rave about how they deserve this and they deserve that, it makes a guy want to puke after a while. The only thing anyone deserves is life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Life is not a government entitlement program.

09-14-2006 04:24 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
porkchops38
Regular Contributor
porkchops38

merrylaff wrote:
Can we do this one issue at a time? Not trying to do anything here but have a decent conversation…..

Remember, Scripture says we are to submit to the governing authorities…right? And yet, Peter and John, when confronted with the situation of being asked to do something contrary to God’s word, said “we have to obey God rather than man”. Therefore, my premise is that women submit except in cases where their husband requires something of them that is morally contradictory to His revealed Word – i.e. watching pornography, getting drunk, etc. There are places where a woman has to be submissive to the Lord first….

It has been my observation that in the most long lasting marriages – submission was never an issue. I never once heard my dad say to my mom “you MUST submit” ( they were married over 50 years and were very traditional) and I never have heard any other great husbands say that. There is just a mutual unspoken understanding that the roles are clearly defined and in that relationship, the two of them eagerly embrace those roles.

If a husband tells his wife to go prostitute her body, don’t you think such a husband’s character would have been revealed a long time before they were married? I’d argue that any man who would tell his wife to prostitute her body, would practically have a sign on his forehead saying “Jackazz” when he and she first met, so it then becomes a chicken and egg issue — you blame the husband for telling his wife to prostitute her body, and I blame the wife for marrying the man with a “Jackazz” sign on his forehead in the first place. Like I say, we could argue hypotheticals ’til hell develops ice caps. Also, the institution of civil government is not in any way a covenantal relationship, whereas the institution of marriage is a covenant, thus you’re using a bible verse to compare apples (civil government) with oranges (marriage covenant).

A man yelling at his wife saying “you will submit”, then very obviously that’s not submission. Jesus didn’t run around this earth begging people to submit to him. My boss at work doesn’t run around begging people to work for him. Military officers don’t run around begging soldiers to fight for them. It goes without saying. If a man has to beg, he’s no man and she’s no woman, they are just sorry excuses for their god-given gender. That’s why Jesus didn’t fret when people mocked him, that’s why bosses fire employees that have to be chided to work, that’s why military officers court martial soldiers who refuse to fight, and that’s why husbands who have a rebellious wife have historically went on permanent vacations from them.

“Like a gold ring in a pig’s snout is a beautiful woman who shows no discretion” Proverbs 11:22-22

09-14-2006 05:02 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
merrylaff
Contributor
merrylaff
Then I think you and I agree more than you think. If the premise is that a man loves his wife and she is submissive (respects, honors and – gasp – even at times obeys) to him in either a civil union or a covenant marriage, then the submission should not be a huge issue. That is what I have been trying to say but you kept insinuating I had an underlying motive.

I believe the original question you had was whether or not I had some sort of preconceived notion about a woman’s conditions for getting married and staying at home. NO! The same pre-conditions would apply to both – one loves, one submits.

Now – if a man suddenly stops loving…yes it is true that the Bible says a woman can win him over by her gentle and loving spirit. But no woman in her right mind is going to deliberately go into a marriage knowing he has no intention of loving her – JUST as you guys have no intention of going into a marriage knowing that your prospective wife is a feminist……

09-14-2006 05:27 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
tellafriend
Regular Contributor
tellafriend

You’re confusing 2 matters here, the obeying and submitting. Inwardly there’s the attitude of submission. It’s to recognize a man’s authority in general terms.

Just as the principle of the younger submitting to the older, the older is not always right. But that’s not the point. The younger should have the ATTITUDE of submission. Now if the older tells the younger to jump off a cliff, the younger is not bound to obey. But neither is he free to leave the attitude of submission. Regardless of how evil, how base, how wrong or how immoral the older is, the younger must ALWAYS carry about the attitude of submission to the older as a matter of PRINCIPLE. Because as the bible says “[all authority is placed BY GOD].” Even the evil authority over us. Jesus himself submitted to Ceasar even though he was evil and corrupt. He paid the tax to Caesar even though he was author of the universe. Jesus put forth a very proper example of submitting to the authority over him. This is what childish women today neglect. They want to find LOOPHOLES out of submission. I.e. “I will submit IF…”.. “I will only do this or that IF…” There’s always the insertion of the childish “IF” .. IF you do things MY way, THEN I’ll submit to you. Jesus did not tell Caesar, “IF you stop being evil, THEN I will pay your taxes owed to you.” Clearly women are violating this example today. In their quest for equality, they are taking freedom to the extreme, not realizing that extreme freedom leads to extreme danger.

But forget about the biblical example because not everyone agrees with the bible anyway. Let’s just be pragmatic about it. Submission, limitation, restriction are valid necessary principles that ENABLE real “freedom” to have any meaning.

When you eat a meal, you’re satisfied. You’re filled and happy. If you don’t eat enough, you won’t be satisfied. If you eat too much, you won’t be satisfied. If you eat the proper amount, you’ll be satisfied. Satisfaction is based upon good order. Order is not based upon freedom but limitation. This is a strange but valid paradox.

Eg. If you want to make the best wine, you must use the most LIMITED of grapes. Grapes that grow WILD AND FREE, unattended and without restrictions do not produce the sweetest wine possible. Only grapes that have been properly pruned and restricted are fit for producing great wine.

The same applies to children. If you let your child run FREE without any restriction, you will produce a spoiled brat. He will be FREE but he will be of little value. Children always want to run free and be free of their parents restriction, not being wise enough to realize that they’re being put in school for a reason , they’re being told not to cross the street for a reason, they’re being told what to eat for a reason, they’re being told to brush their teeth for a reason. All this seems like cruel punishment to a child who is not wise enough to see the big picture here. RESTRICTION produces CHARACTER.

If you build a building without restricting it to a blueprint, it will be free but will eventually topple under its own weight.

If you build a free society without any rules or limits, it will freely kill itself without the proper limitation of laws and restrictions.

Women have no idea that this so called liberation is actually the thing that’s responsible for their misery. Women are freeeee to vote, yet they’ve ruined the legal system and the economy with that freedom. Women are free to speak yet they’ve ruined relationships and marriages with that freedom..

Real freedom requires necessary restrictions. If you want to build character in a child, you have to restrict him/her. If a woman wants to be of any value to a man, she must be restricted. I can point to many of the “free” women on here. They are free of restrictions, free of brain cells, free of love, free of value, free of respect, free of meaning. They are their own worst enemy. But like children who experience the excesses of freedom, the only solution is a spanking, not reasoning. You cannot reason with an unruly child. It requires a spanking before they will listen. Feminism is receiving the spanking of its life. And when it has finally admitted its wrongdoing, when it has finally submitted to its proper master–man–THEN and ONLY THEN will it be in a position to LISTEN and RECEIVE the benefit of a proper relationship with men.

Bend over.

Message Edited by tellafriend on 09-14-2006 06:18 PM

09-14-2006 06:06 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
tellafriend
Regular Contributor
tellafriend

merrylaff wrote:

Now – if a man suddenly stops loving…yes it is true that the Bible says a woman can win him over by her gentle and loving spirit. But no woman in her right mind is going to deliberately go into a marriage knowing he has no intention of loving her – JUST as you guys have no intention of going into a marriage knowing that your prospective wife is a feminist……

Wait a min. Is this idiot actually comparing a man marrying a feminist to a woman who marries a man who doesn’t love her? I didn’t realize women typically married men who didn’t love them.
I know that pussified men marry feminazis all the time because it’s an ingrained ideology that’s difficult to spot especially when the woman remains in denial about it and the pussified man has no experience standing up to it.

But I didn’t know that you were stupid enough to marry someone who just flat out didn’t love you. Or that men were reckless enough to marry women they didn’t love at all.

….Or you could just be some idiot woman trying to come up with a ridiculous example to assure yourself you’re right while looking like a total moron in the process.

09-14-2006 06:38 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
porkchops38
Regular Contributor
porkchops38
I agree with you wholly, yes, but only so far. Where I depart from your line of thinking is when you delve into, what I perceive, as this “eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth” thinking. Like I say, that’s the perception I get from many a women who are of a “christian” persuasion nowadays, and like I say, Jesus clearly said that the “eye for an eye” covenant is over, Jesus instituted a new covenant that you could comparatively call “turn the other cheek.” I’m sure there will be times when a man doesn’t feel like loving his wife, and I’m sure there will be times when a wife will feel like her husband isn’t worthy of submission — that’s called life. I once had a married devout christian woman explain to me why she is happily married, she said that her husband treats her well and that makes it so easy for her to submit to him. I then asked, well what happens when he doesn’t treat you well, like suppose he comes home cranky? She replied to me that he doesn’t do that to her because she won’t tolerate it, she said if he mistreats her in the least way he either gets a tongue lashing and complies or she’s “out the door” and gone. That’s the mentality I’m talking about, it’s the “eye for an eye” mentality, and what I’m saying is that this mentality is not predominantly found among men, but rather women, in marriages as I have seen. Men just want to go about life and not make mountains out of molehills, men will forgive and forget, but a woman — a woman can remember crap a man did 27 years prior, and she will sometimes forever remind him of the crap he did 27 years ago. Like I say, this “eye for an eye” mentality, I believe is simply symptomatic of the feminist ideology of “equality” that has crept into churches. I mean, the whole of American society has been wrapped up in feminist ideologies, and you’d have to have grown up by a wolfpack to escape its’ indoctrinating clutches, so I think it’s preposterous to even ponder that churches somehow have or had immunity to feminist propaganda.

How would you like it if men were generally of the “eye for an eye” nature and mentality in marriage? You mentioned your dad never nagged your mom with “you must submit to me”, but how would you like it if everytime you were rebellious to your husband, your husband would use your rebellious attitude and take the “eye for an eye” approach and feel justified going downtown and bedding a whore? That’s a rhetorical question, just to show you my point. My point is that’s what’s going on in America today, but with women, not men, for the most part. 70% of divorces today are initiated by the wife, and the divorce statistics that I saw show no difference between christian women vs non-christian women. In fact, some studies I saw showed “christian” marriages have a higher divorce rate of 60%. You can only get to a rate of 70% of marriages being filed by the wife through the “eye for an eye” mentality, there’s no forgiveness, no mercy, on the part of women in America. That begs the question, what the hell are these women being taught in churches, “eye for an eye” or “turn the other cheek”? It’s my contention that “eye for an eye” rules the mentality of the overwhelming majority of women today no matter what their religious persuasion, and the 70% statistic bears that out.

You know, the traditional wedding vows say “for better or worse, for richer or poorer, in health and in sickness, and until death do us part”, so somebody should inform the women who file 70% of the divorces in America about that. Also, there was a study of 65 married couples over a 5 year period that I recently read, and the study concluded that the marriages today that have the best chance of lasting are those marriages where the husband does whatever his wife says. Like I say, I’m not purposely trying to put all the blame upon the vast majority of today’s women, but the statistics and studies today don’t give me much choice elsewise. Also, the first step to solving any problem is realizing there is a problem, the second step to solving any problem is making an honest assessment as to what is causing the problem. It’s my assessment that this “eye for an eye” (feminist “equality”) mentality that so many women carry around, combined with the current misandrist laws in America — are the main cause of the problem.

09-14-2006 06:53 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
porkchops38
Regular Contributor
porkchops38
Tellafriend, it’s truly amazing how you can go from the most profanity laced tirade I’ve seen in years, and then two posts later post (“bend over post”) some of the most brilliant words ever seen on a computer screen.

Message Edited by porkchops38 on 09-14-2006 07:04 PM

09-14-2006 07:02 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
tellafriend
Regular Contributor
tellafriend

porkchops38 wrote:
Tellafriend, it’s truly amazing how you can go from the most profanity laced tirade I’ve seen in years, and then two posts later post (“bend over post”) some of the most brilliant words ever seen on a computer screen.

Message Edited by porkchops38 on 09-14-2006 07:04 PM

You say tirade, I say tomato.

Consider this: which is more “profane”?

A) the decimation of a society via the ol’ “good intentions” feminist policy
B) somebody saying “fock you”
C) a picture of a naked lady

When the sanctity of my life is violated by the extremist laws and regulations imposed by children, “fock you” seems pretty trivial in comparison. Language unhinged from its meaning ceases to be of value. Expression denied its vehicle is the recipe for a bomb. And Man robbed of his rightful/functional/pragmatic/natural position is first and foremost a moral crime.

It’s difficult to be concerned with the indignation of others when I’m busy being buried by the “profanity” of neglected and hypocritically applied principles.

I.e. I’ll consider myself “profane” as soon as Feminism considers itself a moral disease. If we’re going to kid each other, I’d at least like to get a head start.

09-14-2006 09:26 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
Anna
Visitor
Anna

Of course, i just work for myself.
Women are so independent today.
We work for ourselves and depend on ourselves!!

09-14-2006 10:34 PM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – As a women, why we work?

Re: As a women, why we work?
tellafriend
Regular Contributor
tellafriend

Anna wrote:
Of course, i just work for myself.
Women are so independent today.
We work for ourselves and depend on ourselves!!

Can somebody remind the clown to show up before the party starts not after?

You probably just started burning your bra yesterday, right? Way to keep abreast of current events.

09-14-2006 10:56 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
Anna
Visitor
Anna

All of my female idols are career women, they are so great!!

09-15-2006 05:33 AM

Re: As a women, why we work?
MartianBachelor
Regular Contributor
MartianBachelor
“…the divorce statistics that I saw show no difference between christian women vs non-christian women. In fact, some studies I saw showed “christian” marriages have a higher divorce rate of 60%.”

Without doing any research, I’ve seen it stated that the so-called red states have a 27% higher divorce rate than the blue states. We tend to think of the former as being more religious, but I think the relevent correlative variables would have to do with educational and income levels rather than the number of church days per capita. (I believe Oklahoma leads the nation in divorce rates, and it’s not really known for much except its college football and basketball teams.)

______________________________________________
“The loudest, most strident voices calling women weak, stupid, and incapable of competing in the world at large are the feminists.” – zed the zen priest

09-15-2006 09:01 AM

Re: As a women, why we work?
porkchops38
Regular Contributor
porkchops38
Well the common argument I hear is that the reason Christians have a higher divorce rate is because they are shooting for a higher moral standard. I can buy that argument in part I suppose, but that still gets you back to the question, “then why in the heck are 70% of women who file for divorce ignoring that “higher moral standard”. It’s still nonsensical. I have seen irreligious couples brag about having “open marriages” where they have swinging parties, go to nude beaches and rub clams on each other, and the like. That’s not “marriage” in the traditional sense, that’s just signing-down on your favorite fok-buddy I guess.

09-15-2006 10:59 AM

Re: As a women, why we work?
merrylaff
Contributor
merrylaff
Ok – Porkchops – I do agree with you on the quid pro quo ….. but again, if we are talking from a biblical perspective…..which is probably not a good idea as this is not a Bible based forum…then the same has to apply to either side. A woman must continue to submit even if her husband has stopped loving. True. BUT….then a husband has to keep loving even if she stops submitting, no? Obviously – this is current laws aside. The analogy is Christ and the church ( Husbands love you wives even as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it)…..and Christ never ever stops loving His church even when the church wanders off into disobedient behavior….oh the complexities of this. But let me say once and again – I do believe in traditional roles and I will not budge from that.

Are you familiar with the laws that changed in the early 70’s in regard to home mortgage loans? It is my recollection that homes began to be assessed on the assumption of 2 individuals bringing in paychecks, thus jacking up the price of housing. Prior to that, housing was assessed on one paycheck coming in. Immediately, the playing field changed. That has been one of the most calamitous decisions in our country as now it is more difficult for a man to earn a “living wage” that easily covers house payments. I am not sure how or why that decision was made – perhaps it was truly the introduction of the feminist agenda…..but it has made it difficult for all of society in the long run.

09-15-2006 11:29 AM

Re: As a women, why we work?
porkchops38
Regular Contributor
porkchops38

merrylaff wrote:
Ok – Porkchops – I do agree with you on the quid pro quo ….. but again, if we are talking from a biblical perspective…..which is probably not a good idea as this is not a Bible based forum…then the same has to apply to either side. A woman must continue to submit even if her husband has stopped loving. True. BUT….then a husband has to keep loving even if she stops submitting, no? Obviously – this is current laws aside. The analogy is Christ and the church ( Husbands love you wives even as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it)…..and Christ never ever stops loving His church even when the church wanders off into disobedient behavior….oh the complexities of this. But let me say once and again – I do believe in traditional roles and I will not budge from that.

Are you familiar with the laws that changed in the early 70’s in regard to home mortgage loans? It is my recollection that homes began to be assessed on the assumption of 2 individuals bringing in paychecks, thus jacking up the price of housing. Prior to that, housing was assessed on one paycheck coming in. Immediately, the playing field changed. That has been one of the most calamitous decisions in our country as now it is more difficult for a man to earn a “living wage” that easily covers house payments. I am not sure how or why that decision was made – perhaps it was truly the introduction of the feminist agenda…..but it has made it difficult for all of society in the long run.

Your ‘teet for taat’ theory holds up well until you enter in the fact that it’s impossible to force one person to love another person. That’s why it seems to me that the author of the bible places the emphasis on women submitting even if the husband is one who does not “obey the word”, whereas I can’t find the reverse gender equivalent anywhere in the n.t. All I see in the n.t. is “hubands love your wives” not “husbands love your wives even if they don’t “obey the word” by being rebellious”. Love is something that has to be freely given, for it to be geniune, I’m sure you can easily agree with that. The bible doesn’t specifically call for women to “love” their husbands per se, but it calls for women to “submit”, “obey”, “honor” their husbands, that’s an important distinction to keep in mind. A wife can still honor, submit, and obey her husband even if she has nothing but hatred for the man. This is why the traditional wedding vows were different for the genders, grooms were asked to vow to “love and cherish” their wife, and brides were asked to vow to “obey and honor” their husbands traditionally. This tradition was borne out of the gender distinctive instructions in the n.t., but nowadays these traditional vows have been often replaced with gender-neutral vows where each spouse vows generically to “love and cherish” each other, thus if a woman vows to “love and cherish” when the bible says she should be vowing to “honor and obey” that could explain why so many women cut and run to divorce court when the don’t “love” their husbands at a moment in time. I’m not arguing that you don’t believe in traditional roles, I think the traditional roles are closer to nature anyways, my only point of contention has always been that i see a great number of women today who believe in “traditional roles” but they invariably have a feminist “equality” slant still, such as I explained previously of the “eye for eye” mentality that even women who aspire to “traditional roles” have.

You need not fret that this in not a bible based forum, because most everything of what the bible teaches, it seems to me that such the same can be found and exemplified in nature anyways. If people have a difficulty with nature, nature usually only ends up biting them in the butt, so no fret.

As for the housing market, there’s many factors involved. I will say that if I was a business owner without any shred of decency, I would do everything in my power to see the divorce rate explode so it would in turn free up the capital locked in those marriages, thereby expanding the overall economy, putting megabucks into my pockets. If my business is making washing machines, every 1% increase in the divorce rate could effectively increase my washing machine sales proportionately, thus making me more richer and divorced people poorer because a married couple only needs one washing machine whereas divorced couple needs two washing machines. You can apply that same logic to the housing market as well. Turn on your primetime television tonight, and you’ll see tv ad after tv ad, mostly trying to sell products to women through ads that belittle, mock, and denigrate men. Ads that show men as imbeciles and buffoons. Those ads accomplish two things, 1) they must be selling products with them, so their must be a considerable amount of women in society today who enjoy to see men portrayed as buffoons and imbeciles, and will buy products from companies who feed these women’s misandrist views, 2) they must be intending to get married women to think of their husbands as buffoons and imbeciles so as to upset the marriage with the hope that the wife will view her husband as a buffoon and divorce the buffoon, to free up the capital locked in that marriage and get that capital spent so as to enlarge the overall economy and make the few richer while they laugh all the way to bank at how gullible women are.

09-15-2006 12:33 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
Anna
Visitor
Anna

To tellafriend :

Why do you say such crude words?
I express my own opinions, ok, you have your own.
Let’s agree with disagree, ok?
And could you be a little more polite?

09-17-2006 10:16 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
amberwilliam
Visitor
amberwilliam

It seems hot here. Thank you for all of you and your unique opinions.

Make friends with you!

09-18-2006 09:57 PM

Re: As a women, why we work?
happy_joey
Regular Visitor
happy_joey

i do only work for myself, because i need money, beauty cloth, delicious food and so on…

09-19-2006 02:48 AM

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