If women really wanted to be equal!


Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – If women really wanted to be equal!

If women really wanted to be equal!
vegasmike
Contributor
vegasmike
If women really wanted to be equal they would:

Buy a man dinner or goes halves on a first date without getting upset.

Not be offended if their significant other makes less money or prefers to be a stay at home father.

Women would riot every time a man was made to pay alimony as women are just as capable as men of supporting themselves.

Demand equal physical fitness test for men and women in jobs that require strong physical capability because they are faced with life and death situations i.e. law enforcement, fire department, and military service

March the streets demanding women get drafted for wars just like men. They had no problem fighting for suffrage why is this different.

Show me a women who believes this and I will show you a women who believes in equality!

08-30-2006 03:33 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
tellafriend
Regular Contributor
tellafriend

haha no kidding!

Women don’t want equality because they were NEVER equal to men in the first place. They just deluded themselves into thinking that.

The post just proves the point

08-30-2006 03:49 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
zacharias
Regular Contributor
zacharias
Real equality would be such a step down for women that they just couldn’t stand it. They only want “eek-wallet-eee” when it comes to the top jobs, the CEOs and such, and not when it comes to the nasty dirty work, which they leave to all those “icky men.”

08-30-2006 03:58 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
leeraconteur
Regular Contributor
leeraconteur

They only want “eek-wallet-eee” when it comes to the top jobs, the CEOs and such, and not when it comes to the nasty dirty work, which they leave to all those “icky men.”

True.  Where are the demands for equal numbers of women garbagemen, underwater welders, frontline infantry, miners and crab fisherman?

08-30-2006 04:06 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
PatriarchVerlch
Regular Contributor
PatriarchVerlch

Those are the women that will leave you because they think you are weak.

Weak men get emotionally run over with a mack truck by these “strong” women.

It’s not worth it. Don’t get married until you can afford to get divorced.

Women have been proving for the last 30 years that men have been right for the last 30 centuries!
http://www.verlch.blogspot.com

08-30-2006 04:07 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
ceflan
Visitor
ceflan
Actually, equality is really a question of power. If women are truly equal- they can be drafted or do the “dirty work” that men appear to do then they would have the same power or potential power that men do. So, by not drafting a women or allowing her to do the dirty work then men still remain more powerful. Power means control and control means that men never have to feel weak or threatened. I don’t think there was ever one women who stood up and said only men should be drafted- actually it was most likely men who came up with the law and chose to exclude women. And by dirty work it doesn’t appear that men do much more dirty work (whatever that means) than women do. Today, throughout South-east Asia, Africa, Eastern Europe, and South America women are sold into the sex-trade, forced into child prostitution, and abused both verbally and sexually. The power struggle here is obvious and I am sure anyone posting or reading these posts would certainly agree that what is happening to these women is a disgrace on humanity. And in the western world, we post messages that claim women do not want to be equal because they don’t want to participate in all the hardships of men?

Would you want to be forced into prostitution? Women only want to have the same power as men and that is to maintain power over herself as an individual and not be scrutinized for it.

08-30-2006 04:13 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
vegasmike
Contributor
vegasmike
Ceflan said:

Would you want to be forced into prostitution? Women only want to have the same power as men and that is to maintain power over herself as an individual and not be scrutinized for it.

This posting was aimed at AMERICAN women. Women who are protected under the laws of American society by men who were drafted to protect them. Leave foreign women out of this as this article is career women and third world countries have no career women.

On another note why doesn’t the feminazi brigade start a military and attack third world countries who abuse women then a news article warning men about the dangers of marrying a career women. Seems priorites are mixed up here,or is it lack of courage.

Ceflan said:

I don’t think there was ever one women who stood up and said only men should be drafted-

I don’t see women fighting for the “privledge” of being drafted either.

08-30-2006 04:20 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
tellafriend
Regular Contributor
tellafriend

Actually, equality is really a question of power. If women are truly equal- they can be drafted or do the “dirty work” that men appear to do then they would have the same power or potential power that men do. So, by not drafting a women or allowing her to do the dirty work then men still remain more powerful. Power means control and control means that men never have to feel weak or threatened. I don’t think there was ever one women who stood up and said only men should be drafted- actually it was most likely men who came up with the law and chose to exclude women. And by dirty work it doesn’t appear that men do much more dirty work (whatever that means) than women do. Today, throughout South-east Asia, Africa, Eastern Europe, and South America women are sold into the sex-trade, forced into child prostitution, and abused both verbally and sexually. The power struggle here is obvious and I am sure anyone posting or reading these posts would certainly agree that what is happening to these women is a disgrace on humanity. And in the western world, we post messages that claim women do not want to be equal because they don’t want to participate in all the hardships of men?

Would you want to be forced into prostitution? Women only want to have the same power as men and that is to maintain power over herself as an individual and not be scrutinized for it.

———–

Obviously you’re a complete idiot. Women do NOT want equality. That’s exactly why they DON’T do any of the things mentioned in the original post. Men understand the true nature of equality. And men understand that the rights we have as men come with RESPONSIBILITIES that women are INCAPABLE of shouldering. That’s why you idiot women are always taught make EXCUSES. While men are taught to accept RESPONSIBILITY.

If you really wanted equality, you’d be standing up for OUR equality as well you hypocritical biotch

08-30-2006 04:22 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
PatriarchVerlch
Regular Contributor
PatriarchVerlch

Women veiw men paying as a weakness. I for one will never allow a woman to pay for me.

Women have been proving for the last 30 years that men have been right for the last 30 centuries!
http://www.verlch.blogspot.com

08-30-2006 04:25 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
zacharias
Regular Contributor
zacharias
“Would you want to be forced into prostitution?”

Would you want to be forced into a coal mine, or to work on a construction project where the rule of thumb was “one man killed for every $1 million of project cost”?

08-30-2006 04:29 PM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – If women really wanted to be equal!

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
vegasmike
Contributor
vegasmike
A women paying for dinner does not make you weak it makes you a modern man. Equality is all the rage.

So next time I am at a bar I would love if a women bought me a drink or had the courage to start a conversation without wanting me to buy them a drink.

08-30-2006 04:31 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
DontMarryNoer
Regular Contributor
DontMarryNoer

Buy a man dinner or goes halves on a first date without getting upset.

Actually, I buy my own. Who have you been hanging out with?

Not be offended if their significant other makes less money or prefers to be a stay at home father.

If I wanted kids, I wouldn’t be. Have you not read the messages from women on here who talked about their stay-at-home significant others? Fighting these straw-people won’t do you well.

Women would riot every time a man was made to pay alimony as women are just as capable as men of supporting themselves.

In the United States, alimony is all but disappearing. And women pay alimony too. Ideally, it wouldn’t be necessary for either.

Demand equal physical fitness test for men and women in jobs that require strong physical capability because they are faced with life and death situations i.e. law enforcement, fire department, and military service

Unfortunately, physical differences persist. By that same token I could say, “if men wanted equality, they would carry a devoloping organism around in their womb for nine months, sit in the bathroom throwing up, aching, risking physical danger, etc., while his girlfriend doesn’t have to”. Secondly, women have demanded, in spite of differences, equal requirments. All it takes is a single Google search. As for military service, it is *men* who keep women out of combat under the guise of chilvalry to maintain power. More women than men seem to not even want young men to have to deal witht he things they do.

March the streets demanding women get drafted for wars just like men. They had no problem fighting for suffrage why is this different.

There hasn’t been a draft in the US in years. Also, see above. It is men who keep women out and women who have both fought against having to draft men and about women not being able to participate in combat. Especially recently when they can’t get people to sign up. Do your homework.

Women veiw men paying as a weakness. I for one will never allow a woman to pay for me.

Hey, vegasmike! Is this the person whom you’ve been taking out on dates?

08-30-2006 04:36 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
ceflan
Visitor
ceflan
“Men understand the true nature of equality.”

please then explain the true nature of equality because obviously the dictionary’s version is not correct? And really, the name calling, a little immature.

08-30-2006 04:41 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
dumbbroad
Regular Contributor
dumbbroad

I don’t disagree with you on any of these points … i don’t expect someone to pay for me, i’m fine if they make less than me or want to stay at home, i wouldn’t automatically expect alimony if i had my own cash, obviously you should be able to perform in a job that requires physicality and i think women should receive equal treatment in the military.

soooo …

08-30-2006 04:42 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
tellafriend
Regular Contributor
tellafriend

Typical example of a female argument:

Yeah um like we make babies so yeah um if we like suffer then like men should have to lift heavy stuff for us cuz like.. we’re like ..equal *giggle*

These idiot women are too stupid to understand common sense.

And they even refer to this as “name calling” also proving how idiotic women are. If the sky is blue, and you said it, they’d accuse you of calling the sky names.

And they wonder why the term “dumb biotch” was invented.

You stupid women are comical

08-30-2006 04:47 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
ceflan
Visitor
ceflan
yet, you didn’t answer the question- what is the true nature of equality?

08-30-2006 04:50 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
ftesyektsi
Regular Contributor
ftesyektsi

vegasmike wrote:
If women really wanted to be equal they would:

Buy a man dinner or goes halves on a first date without getting upset. BTDT

Not be offended if their significant other makes less money or prefers to be a stay at home father.  I could care less how much money my husband makes.

Women would riot every time a man was made to pay alimony as women are just as capable as men of supporting themselves.  Alimony is stupid.  Unless the husband and wife make an agreement when they get married that she won’t work, in which case she’s had no chance to cultivate any marketable skills.  A divorce would then render her financially helpless, and since BOTH would be responsible for her lack of money-making abilities, it’s just good form to help out after a divorce.  It should be the same way if the roles are reversed and the man is left with no way to support himself.

Demand equal physical fitness test for men and women in jobs that require strong physical capability because they are faced with life and death situations i.e. law enforcement, fire department, and military service  Why do you think women aren’t allowed into combat?  As for the other services, how many woman firefighters do you see?  And I believe women are tested to the extent that they have to prove they can hold their own.  Even if they’re as strong as the weakest, limpest, skinny guy on the team, they’re still as strong as he is, and if he stays, they should stay.  Fair?

March the streets demanding women get drafted for wars just like men. There is no draft.  But, you make a good point. They had no problem fighting for suffrage why is this different.

Show me a women who believes this and I will show you a women who believes in equality!

08-30-2006 04:52 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
vegasmike
Contributor
vegasmike
DontmarryNoer said:

All it takes is a single Google search. As for military service, it is *men* who keep women out of combat under the guise of chilvalry to maintain power. More women than men seem to not even want young men to have to deal witht he things they do.

You are right. When the draft was instated way back when men and women were not considered equals men barred women because they were second class citizens. I am advocating that if women really want to be viewed as equals then they would fight for their rights to be drafted.

Look, if women gain mens respect they can be viewed as equal the trouble is it seems women do not want to earn the respect. Fight to get drafted.

08-30-2006 05:04 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
PatriarchVerlch
Regular Contributor
PatriarchVerlch

95% of on the job deaths are men, yet these rape obsessed women drone on about things that don’t even kill you. More women beat their children than man on women violence, per capita more lesbians beat their partners than male on female violence.

Wives say things to husbands that no man would let anybody say to him. Yet we are supposed to take it. I say the next time our wives are emotionally abusive we should whip out a Waiver for a quick light back hand across the face. Then see if they ever try to rip our guts/feelings out again. The balance is men are stronger than women, therefore women should respect said strength, which nowadays they do not. They are manically emotionally abusive, and it sucks to be on the receiving end of a contentious wife and the whims of her emotions. Bite your tongues ladies, or sign a waiver.

Emotional abuse against men has got to end!!!!

Women have been proving for the last 30 years that men have been right for the last 30 centuries!
http://www.verlch.blogspot.com

08-30-2006 05:11 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
AngryMuppet
Regular Contributor
AngryMuppet

PatriarchVerlch wrote:
95% of on the job deaths are men, yet these rape obsessed women drone on about things that don’t even kill you. More women beat their children than man on women violence, per capita more lesbians beat their partners than male on female violence.

Wives say things to husbands that no man would let anybody say to him. Yet we are supposed to take it. I say the next time our wives are emotionally abusive we should whip out a Waiver for a quick light back hand across the face. Then see if they ever try to rip our guts/feelings out again. The balance is men are stronger than women, therefore women should respect said strength, which nowadays they do not. They are manically emotionally abusive, and it sucks to be on the receiving end of a contentious wife and the whims of her emotions. Bite your tongues ladies, or sign a waiver.

Emotional abuse against men has got to end!!!!

Wow. Nothing says “I’m a manly man” quite like crying like a baby that you’re a victim of “emotional abuse.” Quit whining and date somebody else, then. Jesus.

08-30-2006 05:16 PM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – If women really wanted to be equal!

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
tellafriend
Regular Contributor
tellafriend

what a pussywhipped faaaag

His wife has his balls in her purse.

As for equality, it was already presented you dumb BIOTCH. See. Proving once again that women are too stupid to comprehend logic or reason.

08-30-2006 05:23 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
toadman
Regular Contributor
toadman

“If the sky is blue, and you said it, they’d accuse you of calling the sky names.”

If a man speaks alone to himself in the woods and there are no women around, is he still wrong?

08-30-2006 05:23 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
DontMarryNoer
Regular Contributor
DontMarryNoer

toadman wrote:
“If the sky is blue, and you said it, they’d accuse you of calling the sky names.”

If a man speaks alone to himself in the woods and there are no women around, is he still wrong?

If a Noer-groupie (I want to distinguish them from men in general) chops a tree down in a protected forest and nobody is around to hear it fall, is it still the tree’s fault for existing?

How many Noer-groupies does it take to screw in a light-bulb? The job never gets done; they stand there and wait for the bulb to turn for them.

08-30-2006 05:28 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
DSeverin
Visitor
DSeverin
I for one have no problem with paying for the first date with a guy. If I invite someone out–male or female–I pay. To me it has nothing to do with gender but simple etiquette. If someone is your guest you don’t make them pay *shrug*.

I don’t have any problem with any of the other options you presented. In terms of “dirty work” I think that if a job is physically demanding then people should meet the requirements no matter what. Conversely, I know that in many factories around the world, companies (esp those making electronics) prefer women on the assembly line instead of men because they claim women are more nimble. My attitude to that is the same as to the whole firemen, construction worker thing. If there’s a man who’s able to do that type of factory work he should be allowed to do it if he wants to. Same thing with men being nurses or stay-at-home dads. I think people should be judged on ability not gender.

Do I want to be drafted? Of course not; I don’t think men want to be drafted either. Obviously I’m not going to be running to the frontlines to say “draft me”. But if for example, a men’s rights group demanded that women also be drafted based on the principle of equality I wouldn’t think it unreasonable or unfair. I would support it even if it meant being drafted myself.

Where men’s and women’s qualifications are clearly equal, for example for jobs where education and experience are the foremost criteria they should be judged based on ability. In the case of jobs with physical differences I still think ability should be the objective test. I may not be able to heft 300 pounds but I don’t think that somehow makes me inferior to a man. It just means I can’t be a construction worker. I have my own strengths. Does that mean no women should ever be allowed into the construction field? I would say no. Even if they comprise a small percent of the population, there are some women tough enough for those jobs. If they can do them then they shouldn’t be barred from them because of gender. Likewise even though few men want to become midwives, there are some men who would prefer to do that instead of obstetrics. They shouldn’t be stopped from doing it just because they’re men.

What puzzles me the most in this whole thread is why would anyone–man or woman–want to be with someone they feel is not equal to them or worthy of their respect. I’m just as disgusted by a man who thinks women are better than men as by a woman who thinks men are better than women. If marriage is supposed to be about love and shared responsibility, why would I want to be with a partner whom I don’t believe is good intelligent and capable and who thinks that I’m not capable and deserving of respect?

08-30-2006 05:29 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
toadman
Regular Contributor
toadman

A Micahel Noer groupie? Hmm….. that idea has merit. Even though we have no idea who he is other than a contributing editor to Forbes who spoke his mind. Thanks for the pigeon-hole, sugar-britches.

08-30-2006 05:35 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
DontMarryNoer
Regular Contributor
DontMarryNoer

You are right. When the draft was instated way back when men and women were not considered equals men barred women because they were second class citizens. I am advocating that if women really want to be viewed as equals then they would fight for their rights to be drafted.

I don’t want men *or* women to have to be drafted (it isn’t currently a problem). I want them equal opportunity in combat, but that is men preventing as much. I also want them sufficiently protected. Perhaps people should ask what they actually think about these things first.

Look, if women gain mens respect they can be viewed as equal the trouble is it seems women do not want to earn the respect. Fight to get drafted.

Women shouldn’t have to earn respect on the terms of men. Or, on the terms men years ago created for men that existed forty years ago. Because it assumes that one must be the same – which is different than equal – to the other in order to earn respect and it sweeps any question that there may actually be something wrong with things like draft under the carpet.

95% of on the job deaths are men, yet these rape obsessed women drone on about things that don’t even kill you.

Oh, you’ve got to be kidding. A job is something where you make money and accidents happen, and it is the powerful men who don’t create measures to cut down on it because they want to save money. It is the macho men who say, “suck it up”. It is outdated mentality that keeps women out of those jobs. Rape is basically rape no matter how you cut it and where there are direct social conductors. And yes, it can kill you. Nice to see you trivialize something men, women, and children go through. But I bet in the same breath you’d go on about how feminists don’t acknowledg that men get raped, right? Because then it would suddenly be important.

I hope Noer thinks you’re doing him favors.

More women beat their children than man on women violence,

A disproportionate amount of women are in the care of children. Also, you conflate “neglect” with abuse when neglect is a label given to women who are around when an abusive boyfriend beats the kids. By the same logic, you can say more women take care of children than man-on-woman non-violence. At least think on a proportionate basis.

08-30-2006 05:44 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
TheBM
Contributor
TheBM

AngryMuppet wrote:

PatriarchVerlch wrote:
95% of on the job deaths are men, yet these rape obsessed women drone on about things that don’t even kill you. More women beat their children than man on women violence, per capita more lesbians beat their partners than male on female violence.

Wives say things to husbands that no man would let anybody say to him. Yet we are supposed to take it. I say the next time our wives are emotionally abusive we should whip out a Waiver for a quick light back hand across the face. Then see if they ever try to rip our guts/feelings out again. The balance is men are stronger than women, therefore women should respect said strength, which nowadays they do not. They are manically emotionally abusive, and it sucks to be on the receiving end of a contentious wife and the whims of her emotions. Bite your tongues ladies, or sign a waiver.

Emotional abuse against men has got to end!!!!

Wow. Nothing says “I’m a manly man” quite like crying like a baby that you’re a victim of “emotional abuse.” Quit whining and date somebody else, then. Jesus.

So, You would be down for getting rid of the emotional abuse points in the VAWA bill that takes Yelling and constant blaming as serious domestic abuse…. Right?

08-30-2006 05:52 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
IshWishDish
Regular Contributor
IshWishDish

I am advocating that if women really want to be viewed as equals then they would fight for their rights to be drafted.
Actually, I think this guy may be on to something…

This is pretty off topic, but hear me out for a sec. See, we haven’t actually had a draft since Vietnam, so the argument about feminists not wanting equality because we haven’t fought to get drafted makes little sense, especially since most feminists at the time of the Vietnam war were far more likely to be fighting to end the draft, period. Besides, feminists (and other women with military aspirations) who’ve fought for military equality will tell you: so far it’s been impossible to get the military to even consider letting women enter direct combat, much less forcing them to. And now, we’re in a situation where many people are afraid that the draft may be on its way back.

I think I can safely say that there are many feminists today who oppose our foreign policy du jour, find the idea of a draft in this situation completely unacceptable, and would like to establish more credibility for the efficacy of the modern women’s movement. What if we fought for the draft?

Think about it: we could establish our commitment to becoming fully equal citizens, and on top of it, if we actually managed to “win” the “right” to be drafted, it could greatly reduce the odds that the draft would actually be reinstituted. The people most willing to start drafting America’s young men (and the people who have the most power over whether that happens or not) are usually the same people who have the biggest problem with the idea of women being deliberately sent into danger. If reinstituting the draft meant drafting women as well, maybe they’d be less willing to draft at all. We could strike a blow for equality and help protect our husbands/lovers/brothers/sons/friends at the same time. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

08-30-2006 06:02 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
PatriarchVerlch
Regular Contributor
PatriarchVerlch

Ahh come on now, you believe women should be allowed a loose toungue, and hide behind the police? I don’t think its fair, or equal. You want equality, I’ll give it to you.

Women have been proving for the last 30 years that men have been right for the last 30 centuries!
http://www.verlch.blogspot.com

08-30-2006 06:04 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
tellafriend
Regular Contributor
tellafriend

Let’s help this idiot woman out:

>>>>I for one have no problem with paying for the first date with a guy. If I invite someone out–male or female–I pay. To me it has nothing to do with gender but simple etiquette. If someone is your guest you don’t make them pay *shrug*.

What this moron is trying to say is that she’s FUGLY. OF COURSE fugly women have to pay their own way. It’s expected. They have less to offer a guy sexually, so they have to foot the bill. But idiotic women always think they are the exception to the rule when in reality they are just the fugly trolls that no guy will touch with a 10 foot pole. And it’s equally comical and telling that these fugly women are totally in DENIAL about how ugly/undesirable they really are. They act as if they’re in the same category as hot women.

And as for the ol’ standard “whoever invites does the paying”, only an idiot woman would come up with that self-serving illogical argument. Guys do all the asking, this is standard procedure (and no i’m not talking about your fugly women who MUST make the first move on a guy.) So of course they would end up doing all the paying under this idiotic stipulation. Never let an idiot woman think for you. This would be akin to a sprinter telling a guy on crutches, “okay first one to the finish line wins.” Of course the rule favors the social dynamic ALREADY IN PLACE of those who will receive the benefit of the advantage. Fortunately men are not as stupid as women and can see right through this idiotic argument.

>>>>I don’t have any problem with any of the other options you presented. In terms of “dirty work” I think that if a job is physically demanding then people should meet the requirements no matter what. Conversely, I know that in many factories around the world, companies (esp those making electronics) prefer women on the assembly line instead of men because they claim women are more nimble. My attitude to that is the same as to the whole firemen, construction worker thing. If there’s a man who’s able to do that type of factory work he should be allowed to do it if he wants to. Same thing with men being nurses or stay-at-home dads. I think people should be judged on ability not gender.

Exactly and women just aren’t as capable as men as we’ve pointed out. Men are smarter, more stable, are more physically capable, etc. than women. Women should do jobs suited to their function (like cleaning, cooking, baking, sewing, vacuuming, nursing, sucking kaak, gardening, pottery, taking care of kids, etc.) not for the sake of competing with men. That’s just plain idiocy.

>>>>>>Do I want to be drafted? Of course not; I don’t think men want to be drafted either. Obviously I’m not going to be running to the frontlines to say “draft me”. But if for example, a men’s rights group demanded that women also be drafted based on the principle of equality I wouldn’t think it unreasonable or unfair. I would support it even if it meant being drafted myself.

How about you support it by getting up in arms about it and running around with your heads cut off like you do when men tell jokes in the workplace and you get offended. Instead of fighting for idiotic female causes, how about you do something worthwhile for a change and defend TRUE equality, not just CONVENIENT equality. That’s called being a spoiled brat. This is why women aren’t respected. They’re ridiculous children who haven’t grown up. They want to have their cake and eat it too.

>>>>>>>Where men’s and women’s qualifications are clearly equal, for example for jobs where education and experience are the foremost criteria they should be judged based on ability. In the case of jobs with physical differences I still think ability should be the objective test. I may not be able to heft 300 pounds but I don’t think that somehow makes me inferior to a man. It just means I can’t be a construction worker. I have my own strengths. Does that mean no women should ever be allowed into the construction field? I would say no. Even if they comprise a small percent of the population, there are some women tough enough for those jobs. If they can do them then they shouldn’t be barred from them because of gender. Likewise even though few men want to become midwives, there are some men who would prefer to do that instead of obstetrics. They shouldn’t be stopped from doing it just because they’re men.

Dear idiot woman, it’s dumb biotches like you that cost the lives of people on the job. They lower the physical requirements for biotches so they can feel “equal” when in reality all they are doing is endangering people’s lives in the name of so-called “equality”.. female fire fighters have to do less , same with female police officers. It’s a joke. And these women feel they are now EQUAL to men?.. If anything, they LOSE respect from men because they falsely assume they are just as competent as men. The fact that they don’t see that the lowering of standards makes them INFERIOR to men only contributes to the fact that women are IDIOTS. They view doing 10 pushups instead of 30 pushups as a success instead of as receiving special treatment. These idiots can’t tell the difference. So they not only lose respect for not putting in equal work, they lose respect for actually daring to think they put in equal work. It’s an INSULT to real men who are FORCED to shoulder ALL the requirements and responsibilities of a job.

>>>>>>>What puzzles me the most in this whole thread is why would anyone–man or woman–want to be with someone they feel is not equal to them or worthy of their respect. I’m just as disgusted by a man who thinks women are better than men as by a woman who thinks men are better than women. If marriage is supposed to be about love and shared responsibility, why would I want to be with a partner whom I don’t believe is good intelligent and capable and who thinks that I’m not capable and deserving of respect?

Because idiot women think that competing with men is sexy. They think that being mistaken for a man will somehow make them desirable. This is the lie of feminism. Women look down on other women who cook, clean, suck kaak and take care of their homes. This is an honorable duty. But butch feminists feel it is a shame to do female work. They are so busy trying to prove how smart, competent they are that they don’t realize how ridiculous they look. Women think they are just as smart as men, what a joke. Women are in denial about their complete idiocy. They are exactly what mark twain warned against “never letting one’s schooling get in the way of one’s education.” Idiot women don’t understand this profound sentiment because they’re too dumb to understand that feminism has given them a false premise that they have bought into hook, line and sinker. Which just goes to show you that idiot women are also notoriously gullible. These idiot women only showcase their weaknesses when they compete with men. But in reality, it’s just a case of the Emperor’s New Clothes.

Marriage is not about shared responsibility, it’s about a man and a woman COMPLEMENTING each other in FUNCTION, not competing with each other for authority. This is akin to letting the child and the adult drive the car at the same time so the child doesn’t throw a tantrum. That’s bad parenting. And any man who let’s the woman rule his house is just pussywhipped victim of feminism. A woman will NEVER be a man’s equal and loses respect every time she tries to prove it. The truth is so ridiculously obvious. Women do not get respect by competing with men as silly tv commericals attempt to prove. Women get respect from men when they fulfill their FUNCTION because most women don’t. And so they lose their men along with their respect.

08-30-2006 06:08 PM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – If women really wanted to be equal!

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
PatriarchVerlch
Regular Contributor
PatriarchVerlch

You will not see many women in prison, that’s for sure. VAWA, is just another attempt to destroy marriage between men and women. Go ahead, destroy marriage, you will see higher taxes for social nimbwits and their ilk. More serious crime, drugs, more welfare, all the things that keep the poor, poor.

In East Germany divorce went up again when tax funded child care went through. So if your goal is destruction of the world, humanity, and your own safety, continue to support such programs. Call yourself the anti American you are, the Marxist you are, and save people the time spent trying to label you.

Women have been proving for the last 30 years that men have been right for the last 30 centuries!
http://www.verlch.blogspot.com

08-30-2006 06:09 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
AngryMuppet
Regular Contributor
AngryMuppet

TheBM wrote:

So, You would be down for getting rid of the emotional abuse points in the VAWA bill that takes Yelling and constant blaming as serious domestic abuse…. Right?

I’m not sure such a provision actually exists. I went looking for it in the text of the bill but didn’t find it, though I didn’t look for too long (just searched the text for “yelling”). Could you give me a link that points to that provision?

08-30-2006 06:16 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
dumbbroad
Regular Contributor
dumbbroad

ok, seriously, what do you all want?

you just had two or three women (myself included) agree with the first post about equality and yet the responses back basically ignored that fact and called us idiots.

i can only deduce that you don’t actually want to have a constructive conversation, but just want to be hysterical.

08-30-2006 06:40 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
ftesyektsi
Regular Contributor
ftesyektsi

dumbbroad wrote:
ok, seriously, what do you all want?

you just had two or three women (myself included) agree with the first post about equality and yet the responses back basically ignored that fact and called us idiots.

i can only deduce that you don’t actually want to have a constructive conversation, but just want to be hysterical.

You’re probably referring to Tellafriend, out of whom you’ll not read anything remotely constructive.  I think he’s a kid.

08-30-2006 06:44 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
DontMarryNoer
Regular Contributor
DontMarryNoer

ftesyektsi wrote:

dumbbroad wrote:
ok, seriously, what do you all want?

you just had two or three women (myself included) agree with the first post about equality and yet the responses back basically ignored that fact and called us idiots.

i can only deduce that you don’t actually want to have a constructive conversation, but just want to be hysterical.

You’re probably referring to Tellafriend, out of whom you’ll not read anything remotely constructive.  I think he’s a kid.

What are you talking about?! He is a man and therefore more stable. Didn’t you see him say that somewhere in between all the vitriolic ranting?

08-30-2006 06:46 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
nonsequitur
Visitor
nonsequitur
Agreed. Have started just skipping his replies – on the plus side, there are a few people on this thread who are actually talking, rather than just behaving like a computer program set up to spew random mysogynist insults.

Well done folks

08-30-2006 06:50 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
tellafriend
Regular Contributor
tellafriend

oh no. More idiot women trying to reason out loud

It’s pretty ironic that these idiot women are demanding a real discussion, yet they’re just to stupid to maintain a coherent thought or even read any of the arguments presented.

Maybe if you idiot women tried shutting your mouths and reading slower, you’d actually learn something from the men on here.

But like most idiot women, when your when your mouth isn’t full, it’s usually just babbling incoherent nonsense. This is what happens when fat/fugly women try to reason on their own. Their bitterness and hatred of men just shines through.

ps. I love it when idiot women use big words like “misogyny”. Now go look up “misandry” you typical predictable morons.

Message Edited by tellafriend on 08-30-2006 07:00 PM

08-30-2006 06:57 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
ftesyektsi
Regular Contributor
ftesyektsi

DontMarryNoer wrote:

ftesyektsi wrote:

dumbbroad wrote:
ok, seriously, what do you all want?

you just had two or three women (myself included) agree with the first post about equality and yet the responses back basically ignored that fact and called us idiots.

i can only deduce that you don’t actually want to have a constructive conversation, but just want to be hysterical.

You’re probably referring to Tellafriend, out of whom you’ll not read anything remotely constructive.  I think he’s a kid.

What are you talking about?! He is a man and therefore more stable. Didn’t you see him say that somewhere in between all the vitriolic ranting?

Crap!  You’re right, you’re right.  I forgot.

08-30-2006 07:23 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
tellafriend
Regular Contributor
tellafriend

Crap!  You’re right, you’re right.  I forgot.
Don’t worry. Your idiocy is quite forgettable

08-30-2006 07:32 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
vegasmike
Contributor
vegasmike
I am surprised, some women actually agreed to be drafted. Kudos to all you courageous women. I guess if all women wanted equality like you do I would have no gripe. Maybe if we work together we can make it happen. To me equal means 100% equal and I can handle that and it seems you can to.

08-30-2006 07:33 PM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – If women really wanted to be equal!

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
fishnamedjames
Regular Contributor
fishnamedjames
I’m against the draft in general, but if it’s going to exist anyway then I support drafting women as well as men.

08-30-2006 07:49 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
fishnamedjames
Regular Contributor
fishnamedjames
I guess I should mention I’m a woman.

08-30-2006 07:57 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
rudegubmintwrkr
Visitor
rudegubmintwrkr

Buy a man dinner or goes halves on a first date without getting upset.  Sounds good to me.

Not be offended if their significant other makes less money or prefers to be a stay at home father.
If a couple decides a parent should be at home with the children, it only makes sense the one with less income potential stay at home with the children.  Whether or not either stays at home should be discussed before the kids.  Unilateral decisions on things like quitting jobs to go back to school or raising children are wrong.  (And no, I’m not speaking of uncontrollable circumstances such as lay offs or quitting to stay home with children who need special care.)  Before a couple take up housekeeping or get married, they should know how much each other makes.  So whichever person complains about the other making too little money can take his or her happy behind to a higher paying career or a second job, or learn to manage money better.

Women would riot every time a man was made to pay alimony as women are just as capable as men of supporting themselves.
I really do not believe in alimony except in cases where one spouse will have to get a job to get on his or her feet because s/he has no income.  Even then, the alimony should not go on for extended periods of time.

Demand equal physical fitness test for men and women in jobs that require strong physical capability because they are faced with life and death situations i.e. law enforcement, fire department, and military service
I agree!  Wherever I can demand that firefighters be able to physically haul my arse out of a burning home, I will!

March the streets demanding women get drafted for wars just like men. They had no problem fighting for suffrage why is this different.
I don’t believe in drafts period for “wars” such as Dumbya’s War on Terror.  However, should there ever be a true need for a draft, it should be based on physical, mental and emotional ability to handle combat and stressful situations.  There are people of both genders who could handle it, and people of both genders who could not.

08-30-2006 08:16 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
PatriarchVerlch
Regular Contributor
PatriarchVerlch

Yeah…lol… I feel alot safer knowing there will be women, or wimmen in our front lines that can’t throw a grenade far enough to keep from blowing themselves up consistently, or reach the trigger on a M16!!!

The enemy is in trouble!!!

What  out terrors of the free world, a little American Princess who cannot do one pull up is coming to route you out! Please just don’t take her gun from her and shoot the men with her.

Women have been proving for the last 30 years that men have been right for the last 30 centuries!
http://www.verlch.blogspot.com

08-30-2006 08:57 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
fishnamedjames
Regular Contributor
fishnamedjames
Huh, well, nothing works I guess. If you ask a man out and pay for his dinner, that means you’re an fugly woman. If you want to serve your country, that means you’re going to be a lousy princess on the battlefield.

08-30-2006 09:10 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
zacharias
Regular Contributor
zacharias

fishnamedjames wrote:
I guess I should mention I’m a woman.

Named James?

08-30-2006 09:19 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
bowenj10
Contributor
bowenj10

“I really do not believe in alimony except in cases where one spouse will have to get a job to get on his or her feet because s/he has no income.”

This is another of those situations that should be discussed before a marriage.  Alimony should only be awarded if it is stated in a prenup.  Again, if you don’t have the foresight to realize that things might possibly go awry if you don’t make plans then you deserve what you get.  If you don’t use birth control, expect children to come along.

08-30-2006 09:22 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
tomshh
Regular Contributor
tomshh

If women want to be equal, they should demand to be on the front lines, so that men don’t have to go serve 2 and 3 tours.

Put them on the front lines, in female ONLY patrols (no sexual harrassment then).

If they get whipped out, so be it.  They are not at least equals.

08-30-2006 09:45 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
fishnamedjames
Regular Contributor
fishnamedjames
I’m a woman who owns a fish named James. He’s a betta. He sits on my desk.

08-30-2006 10:17 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
nonsequitur
Visitor
nonsequitur
Whilst I really did have the intention to completely skip tellafriends posts (he and PatriarchVerlch are such obvious trolls there’s no point in paying any attention to them on a thread where actual discussion is occurring), I feel that I should point out in the interests of clarity that – last time I checked – my gender was male.

Promise I won’t encourage him again, even when he posts the inevitable response about me not being a “real” man in some way

tellafriend wrote:

oh no. More idiot women trying to reason out loud

It’s pretty ironic that these idiot women are demanding a real discussion, yet they’re just to stupid to maintain a coherent thought or even read any of the arguments presented.

Maybe if you idiot women tried shutting your mouths and reading slower, you’d actually learn something from the men on here.

But like most idiot women, when your when your mouth isn’t full, it’s usually just babbling incoherent nonsense. This is what happens when fat/fugly women try to reason on their own. Their bitterness and hatred of men just shines through.

ps. I love it when idiot women use big words like “misogyny”. Now go look up “misandry” you typical predictable morons.

Message Edited by tellafriend on 08-30-200607:00 PM

08-31-2006 05:01 AM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – If women really wanted to be equal!

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
IshWishDish
Regular Contributor
IshWishDish

I guess if all women wanted equality like you do I would have no gripe.

Well, if all men wanted equality too, I would have no gripe either, and neither would the majority of feminists. Now, if we can just remove from the equation all the people – women and men – who just want a free ride and will hijack any ideal they think will convince people to give it to them…

08-31-2006 10:42 AM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
tellafriend
Regular Contributor
tellafriend

we both know you’re a ridiculous BIOTCH. Nobody would ever mistake your gay ass for a man. You even write in pink.

Yeah you need to exercise better self-control. A little biotch like you isn’t equipped to handle me.

Now run along and go play with your dolls, honey

——————————————————————————–

Whilst I really did have the intention to completely skip tellafriends posts (he and PatriarchVerlch are such obvious trolls there’s no point in paying any attention to them on a thread where actual discussion is occurring), I feel that I should point out in the interests of clarity that – last time I checked – my gender was male.

Promise I won’t encourage him again, even when he posts the inevitable response about me not being a “real” man in some way

08-31-2006 01:59 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
rjmck
Contributor
rjmck

J      ust for the interest of anyone still reading this thread, during the Vietnam war when there was a draft, a woman named Phillis Schafly (think the spelling’s right) actually argued that only men should be drafted. Her main argument was that Americans didn’t want to see their daughters coming home in a body bag. This was before feminism got rolling, but there wasn’t one complaint about Schafly’s argument. Women were never drafted. And by the way, if you think about oppression, consider what it meant for American men to know that, war or not, they would automatically lose 2 years of their lives by being forced into the army at the age of 18 without a deferment, while women were free to pursue their lives without hinderance.
The reason women are kept out of the military may have to do with the need for men to look “macho” (as some female posters here have argued), but it also has to do more fundamentally with long held sexist beliefs by both men and women that women are somehow more valuable than men. That’s why when accidents are reported, the most significanat statistic is how many women and children died, not how many men were killed. Female priviledge still exists in this culture, deeply buried in both men and women’s psyches. That’s part of what men are complaining about– women just don’t see their own sexism, but are hypercritical of mens’.

08-31-2006 03:50 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
tellafriend
Regular Contributor
tellafriend

Just for the interest of anyone still reading this thread, during the Vietnam war when there was a draft, a woman named Phillis Schafly (think the spelling’s right) actually argued that only men should be drafted. Her main argument was that Americans didn’t want to see their daughters coming home in a body bag. This was before feminism got rolling, but there wasn’t one complaint about Schafly’s argument. Women were never drafted. And by the way, if you think about oppression, consider what it meant for American men to know that, war or not, they would automatically lose 2 years of their lives by being forced into the army at the age of 18 without a deferment, while women were free to pursue their lives without hinderance.
The reason women are kept out of the military may have to do with the need for men to look “macho” (as some female posters here have argued), but it also has to do more fundamentally with long held sexist beliefs by both men and women that women are somehow more valuable than men. That’s why when accidents are reported, the most significanat statistic is how many women and children died, not how many men were killed. Female priviledge still exists in this culture, deeply buried in both men and women’s psyches. That’s part of what men are complaining about– women just don’t see their own sexism, but are hypercritical of mens’.

Yeah but that would require a brain to figure out. And we both know that women are much stupider than men.

Men tell the truth about equality. Women remain in denial. Same old story. You can’t explain common sense to retards. That’s why it’s up to men to get the job done.

08-31-2006 04:11 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
vegasmike
Contributor
vegasmike
My point is this: If the President were to re-instated the draft and add women to the mix then am I supposed to believe that feminist movement would not become enraged and demand that only men were drafted. I can’t not take it at face value, I would have to see that women were willing to do their part.

Women who do volunteer for the military, please all the physical requirements are double standard. I was in the military I saw it. Women who couldn’t even finish a formation run had a higher physical fitness score than me. Double standard all the way.

08-31-2006 04:21 PM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
IshWishDish
Regular Contributor
IshWishDish

during the Vietnam war when there was a draft, a woman named Phillis Schafly (think the spelling’s right) actually argued that only men should be drafted.

That’s very true. What you don’t mention here is that Phillis Schlafly was a rabidly anti-feminist conservative, and that all her male fellow conservatives were making that argument right alongside her. Actually, more in front of her. She was backing them up.

Seriously, rj, did you not know that, or were you just hoping none of us would?

Y’all can go check out her website if you don’t believe me. PhyllisSchlafly.com. You guys should love her. She’s like the granny of your dreams.

09-01-2006 01:40 AM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
IshWishDish
Regular Contributor
IshWishDish

My point is this: If the President were to re-instated the draft and add women to the mix then am I supposed to believe that feminist movement would not become enraged and demand that only men were drafted.

Well, I hope we never know if you’re right, because I consider the draft unconscionable. And I can promise you, this President will never add women to the draft. You’d need a liberal for that, or a mandate from we the people. If the scenario you describe does come up, though, I think you might just be pleasantly suprised, at least at how feminists would be way too busy protesting the existence of the draft to focus much on their own eligibility for it. Like I said before, I’d like to see women included in the draft, because I think it would make conservatives way less likely to reinstate it.

09-01-2006 01:49 AM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
rjmck
Contributor
rjmck

during the Vietnam war when there was a draft, a woman named Phillis Schafly (think the spelling’s right) actually argued that only men should be drafted.

That’s very true. What you don’t mention here is that Phillis Schlafly was a rabidly anti-feminist conservative, and that all her male fellow conservatives were making that argument right alongside her. Actually, more in front of her. She was backing them up.

Seriously, rj, did you not know that, or were you just hoping none of us would?
____________________________________________________

Yes, Iwishdish, I knew that, but I don’t see it as being relevant to my point, which was only that traditional thinking makes men less valuable than females, an assumption that no one, conservative or liberal, bothered to dispute during the war. I wasn’t trying to attack feminist here for not standing up for equality- feminism as such didn’t exist then. But these anti-male attitudes go deep in our culture- held by both men and women- and are like teh proverbial elephant in the room. It’s that huge thing that no one talks about because everyone is so used to it they take it for granted. If you deconstruct many of the attitudes that women (and many men) today hold about men, you’ll find elements of those same cultural biases. I think this partially explains why female sexism isn’t noticed or debated– it’s been part of female consciousness for so long, by women like Schafly and others, that no one can even think about it. Or worse, women blame men for their own oppression, but which I mean women expect men to do the dangerous or dirty work and “be a man about it” for example. Or naturally assume that men ought to be responsible when women get pregnant, as if a man’s wishes are not to be considered in the matter. That’s why the draft issue and Schafly’s response is so interesting– it really shows how a complete double standard can stare us in the face– and no one even notices.

09-01-2006 02:09 AM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
IshWishDish
Regular Contributor
IshWishDish

Yes, Iwishdish, I knew that, but I don’t see it as being relevant to my point, which was only that traditional thinking makes men less valuable than females, an assumption that no one, conservative or liberal, bothered to dispute during the war.

This is not recon for a personal attack, rjmck, but may I ask how old you are? You seem to be interpreting the very complex cultural values of a bygone era through a distinctly modern set of assumptions. When you evaluate how value was assigned to human life in that era, please be sure to factor in a few things:

1) Prior to the civil rights/feminist/anti-war era, Americans considered military service a source of honor, not oppression. A man who served in combat was a hero – and by much thought, the only sort of person who was fully entitled to his rights and freedoms. If you’d like clear proof that America valued its soldiers more, not less, than civilians, look no further than the struggle of black Americans to be fully integrated into the military. They faced huge resistance from whites, who felt they were unworthy of the honor and feared the idea of arming them. Want the easy version? Go rent “Glory.”  It is only now, post-Vietnam, that we’ve developed any widespread societal mistrust of the military or concern for the potential it has to exploit the most powerless citizens in the worst possible way.

2) The term “value” is very different when applied to human beings than when applied to actual property. When we’re talking about inanimate possessions, it’s clear that the items we most value are the ones we protect most carefully. People are a different story. Unlike inert matter, humans are expected to earn and prove their value. There are any number of qualities for which we value people: talent, strength, intelligence, courage, charm, generosity, etc. etc. etc. However, these qualities only earn value through use. You can look at a diamond and evaluate its good and bad points visually, define its value, and put it safely away. You can’t do that with a person. If a man is to have exceptional value because he is intelligent, he must use that intelligence to accomplish extraordinary things. Simply scoring highly on IQ tests doesn’t make him any more valuable than the average joe.  If he is to have value because he is generous, simply having a “soft heart” is meaningless. He must actually give of himself and his resources to a degree that most never would. Few qualities in human history have been greater sources of societal value than courage. Based on the principal I’ve described, what must one do to be valued for one’s courage? Thing is, none of this applied to women. The value of women was seen as inherent and consistent, like an object, and so women required protecting, like an object. Would you like to be an object, rjmck? Even a highly valued one?

That’s all I’ll say on this topic for now, though I may come back to it later, as the discussion warrants. I think your interpretation of traditional responses to women as combatants has provided a very interesting insight into the source of this “oppressed” mentality among some young anti-feminist men. Thank you.

09-01-2006 10:51 AM

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
IshWishDish
Regular Contributor
IshWishDish

it really shows how a complete double standard can stare us in the face– and no one even notices.

Oh, just one more thing. People actually did notice that double standard, and a whole movement began to expose and combat it. That movement was called feminism.

09-01-2006 11:03 AM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – If women really wanted to be equal!

Re: If women really wanted to be equal!
rjmck
Contributor
rjmck

Great response Iwishdish! Lots of good ideas. Still irrelevant to my point, however. Yes women were valued in the way you suggest– but to the people of those times, you’re analysis of “value” would also seem modern and foreign (these are conservatives, remember). Yes being a soldier was an honour- if you were a man, that’s how they got you to go over the top for “God and country”. Young men have been sacrificed this way for hundreds of years, in part because they were naive enough to buy this nonsense, but also because women supported the value of sending men off to die to protect them. Remember the use of the white feather during the First World War? Women were told to give a white feather to men they considered cowards for not going to the trenches to die. Today they wish to spin this as a form of “oppression”. Given the choice, however, I’d rather be giving out the white feathers than getting them, wouldn’t you?
My point here is the entire set of values, shared by men and women alike, rewarded men for dying horrible deaths, while preserving women from battle. Of course this required a set of presumptions about women too. But your analysis begs the entire question: how were men also betrayed by gender stereotypes? How were their lives controlled and destroyed by those presumptions? Women like Schafly are representatives of a certain point of view, but that point of view didn’t just trap women – it also doomed men. And women were willing supporters of those values. They benefited tremendously from being able to sacrifice the lives of young men, rather than being seen as equally capable of fighting. The same is true, by the way, of sending men into hostile environments, or into dangerous industries– the lives of men are not valued hightly by this culture. One of the main causes of the gap in the lifespan of men and women is that men die in industrial accidents at a rate far higher than women. It’s interesting, isn’t it, that women have demanded the right to be fully working members of society– good for them. But there is a conspicuous lack of them in truly dangerous professions. Most choose safe, well-paid office jobs. Women have always enjoyed a kind of priviledge in this culture, and feminism has been a means of extending that priviledge, enjoying the rights of being female, while demanding the same rights that acrued to men.
And now women have decided to see that priviledged position into a kind of oppression, blaming men, while not seeing how they benefited, and in fact supported those gender roles themselves. This is why it is so offensive to men to have women now claim that feminism is about “equality”: it is only about women shedding those gender stereotypes that oppress them, without even acknowledging that men were also victims of that “system”. We’re not talking patriarchy here: even that term is offensive and sexist, and demonstrates how a certain kind of anti-male prejudice continues to inform the consciousness of women in our culture. The basic formation of female consciousness, your identity as women, now needs to undergo a kind of deconstruction to root out your own sexist attitudes and presumptioons about men. Until you are really willing to take on that challenge, then claims that feminism is about equality are self serving hypocrisy. Most men see that. And unfortunately, most women are still incapable of getting it. Think about feminism for a second: is it about equality? Or is it only about the rights of women? The two are not synonymous. The name “feminism” itself gives its real agenda away.
I would suggest that this is why so many women became so hostile to Noer’s article– not just because of poor methodology, but because he challenges female priviledge on a very basic, preconscious level. He raises the possibility than men may be able to make choices, and those choices may not include women. The female ego identity is formed around the idea of difference from men, not only as being morally superior, but also of being seen as desirable on a constant basis. But if men reject women on that level, they are in fact attacking them in the same way that men are vulnerable when their ego identity is attacked by women challenging men’s roles as breadwinners and fathers. Some of the women on this post are now experiencing what men have been feeling for the last 30 years. And their responses betray their indignation and vulnerability just the way the men’s responses betray theirs.
I’ll leave you to think this through for a while.

09-01-2006 12:54 PM

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