Male Suicide Rates and Other Stats?


Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – Male Suicide Rates and Other Stats?

Male Suicide Rates and Other Stats?
jewels
Contributor
jewels

Patriarch are you out there?  Where are those statistics you quoted that said career women are the cause of all the crime and increase in jail population, all the suicides, all the out of wedlock pregnancies, and so on…..I couldn’t find the thread where you published but there were 5-6 categories.   What was your source?  I wanted to look at the age/race breakdown.  I found the stats interesting since jail has become big business these days.  Recently a high school teacher was arrested at school for a delinquent seat belt ticket,  they lost the paperwork in the system for 3 days, no phone call, no hearing,  nada.  Many others reported their OWN horror stories in a discussion forum giving a picture of the legal system today.  Anyway, there are some powerful support groups out there now to provide the needed “fathering” that so many kids are missing.

Having two male family members who committed suicide two generations ago, I’ve been concerned about the “depression” gene being passed down to my own sons.

FACTS ON MALE SUICIDE

Each year, depression affects about 6 million American men and 12 million American women, but men are 4 times as likely to commit suicide. 90 per cent of people who commit suicide have a history of depression, substance abuse, or mental illness, often in combination.
Note: NOT CAUSED BY CAREER WOMEN

Starting in adolescence men are much more likely to take their own lives.
Note: NOT CAUSED BY CAREER WOMEN

Older white men over the age of 85 have the highes suicide rate.
Note: NOT CAUSED BY CAREER WOMEN

Women attempt suicide 3 times as often as men, but the girly girls are less likely to complete the act.
Note: NOT CAUSED BY CAREER WOMEN

Men’s central brain circuitry has difficulty adapting to change, so men are threatened by rapid social, political and economic change and experience a profound loss of identity, status and dignity and the only solution they can think of is to kill themselves.
Note: NOT CAUSED BY CAREER WOMEN

In eastern and central European countries where capitalism replaced communism overnight, stress and mental illness decreased the life expectancy for men by 13 years.
Note: NOT CAUSED BY CAREER WOMEN

Similarly, male suicide rates soared during the Great Depression of the 1930s, when vast numbers of American men were unemployed. (the wife didn’t work either, but she didn’t commit suicide – blame the mancard philosophy of male expectations ….?)
Note: NOT CAUSED BY CAREER WOMEN

Job stress is a primary trigger for male suicide:
1. Having no control in decisions affecting responsibilities
2. Unrelenting and unreasonable demands for performance
3. Lack of communication/conflict-resolution methods among co-workers and employers
4. Lack of job security
5. Night-shift work, excessive overtime, or both
6. Excessive time spent away from home and family
7. Wages that don’t reflect the level of responsibility
Note: NOT CAUSED BY CAREER WOMEN

(Note: why that women suffer these same situations but don’t kill themselves over it? maybe male/female programming)

A history of alcohol or drug abuse is common among men with depression resulting in suicide.
Note: NOT CAUSED BY CAREER WOMEN

Men suffering from hormone imbalances with low testosterone levels and ED (erectile dysfunction) so rather than get (girlyfied) hormone replacement, they kill themselves.
Note: NOT CAUSED BY CAREER WOMEN

Men are more likely to be victims of criminal violence and accidents in war, which are leading causes of PTSD resulting in depression and suicide. (sic Uncle Sam)
Note: NOT CAUSED BY CAREER WOMEN

Men are trained to focus on achievement and success, so they feel under constant pressure to perform well and when they don’t, they kill themselves.
Note: NOT CAUSED BY CAREER WOMEN

Men learn to overvalue independence and self-control during childhood when they get their “mancard” and are taught it’s unmanly to express pain, weakness, uncertainty, helplessness and sadness. Men see illness as a weakness in their masculinity so they deny or hide their problems until they kill themselves.
Note: NOT CAUSED BY CAREER WOMEN

Followers of religions that strongly prohibit suicide, like Christianity and Islam, have a higher suicide rate than those religions which have no strong prohibition (Buddhism and Hinduism).
Note: NOT CAUSED BY CAREER WOMEN

A man has a higher risk of suicide if a parent , close relative, or close friend has taken their own life.
Repeat after me: NOT CAUSED BY CAREER WOMEN

09-05-2006 07:30 PM

Re: Male Suicide Rates and Other Stats?
ACatInSD
Regular Contributor
ACatInSD

Good post Jewel. If you could add a link to these stats, that would be more persuasive.

Thanks.

09-05-2006 07:49 PM

Re: Male Suicide Rates and Other Stats?
jewels
Contributor
jewels

Mayo Clinic website

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/male-depression/MC00041

09-05-2006 07:54 PM

Re: Male Suicide Rates and Other Stats?
ACatInSD
Regular Contributor
ACatInSD

thanks again Jewel, I will read it in details tonight.

What you posted here makes a lot of sense. I have a very good family background, both my parents are successful and happy. But I have seen, during my grown-up time that in a lot of situation, usually men were the first that got crashed, either emotionally or physically, or even both.

I think both genders have their own weakness as a whole, depends where. Men usually are physically strong, but emotionally, some of them are easy to get crashed.

09-05-2006 08:00 PM

Re: Male Suicide Rates and Other Stats?
jewels
Contributor
jewels

Personally, I think the mancard puts guys under a lot of undue pressure which shouldn’t be there, and they blow in all kinds of ways, a lot of which aren’t good. Hence the golf course – sports – etc.

09-05-2006 08:07 PM

Re: Male Suicide Rates and Other Stats?
juliandroms
Regular Contributor
juliandroms
ACatInSD said:
>
> thanks again Jewel, I will read it in details tonight.
>
> What you posted here makes a lot of sense.
>

Actually, it’s an emotional diatribe with little basis in fact — just supposition, rumor, and innuendo.

Also, given that she is not even a man, it’s difficult for me to put much weight in her theories regarding why some men off themselves.

09-05-2006 08:10 PM

Re: Male Suicide Rates and Other Stats?
jewels
Contributor
jewels

juliandroms wrote:
Actually, it’s an emotional diatribe with little basis in fact — just supposition, rumor, and innuendo.

After 25+ years in the business world in a Fortune 500 corporation, I know EXACTLY how people “run the numbers” and distort them to suit their whatever flavor the purpose is today.  As a systems and process expert, my knowledge base spans number crunching tactics from sales revenue to cost accounting to forecast extensively.  How ’bout you cowboy – got a couple years of actual business experience under yer belt yet?

You may fool all the people some of the time, you can even fool some of the people all of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all the time…

09-05-2006 08:44 PM

Re: Male Suicide Rates and Other Stats?
ACatInSD
Regular Contributor
ACatInSD

Well said, Jewel.

09-05-2006 09:23 PM

Re: Male Suicide Rates and Other Stats?
Hujo
Contributor
Hujo
Hey ladies consider what the world would be like if men received the same health funding and study that women did, or if men’s status was you know, actually studied before the millennia like women’s has been for the last thirty years, or if men received the same general concern that we’ve been programmed to give to women exclusively, perhaps then we would commit to finding out why men kill them self’s 4-8 times that of women.

You don’t think your NOW or my status of women Canada wouldn’t be all over that stat making it a prominent example of how modern women are oppressed in society, that there lives are that much less livable?

Before you say so, yes it is up to everyone (but feminists I guess) to find out why, no I am not asking feminists to do anything except get their moldy lace curtains off of information that very well COULD save some men’s lives, by actually exposing them, thru media, to realities out there that are OMG NOT candy coated in PC feminist filters. You think Forbes will ever consider publishing any other economical truths that that might make women look bad?

I hope Forbes knows that; truth kills feminist thought police dead!

Surgeon’s generals warning to men;
Divorce may cause severe financial loss, immense emotional strain, may lead too severe depression, the loss of children and even death.

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/03/15/divorce.suicide.wmd/index.html

There is one more article from Canada, site is down, will post later.

http://www.amatterofjustice.org/amoj/52articlespage.cfm?articleno=10

I know biased site but you can e-mail the author of the article at the toronto star for verification

Message Edited by Hujo on 09-05-2006 10:16 PM

09-05-2006 09:56 PM

Re: Male Suicide Rates and Other Stats?
LL
Contributor
LL

Jewels, I am not sure what the original conversation was, but I will answer your questions in regard to the male suicide rate and the other statistics you show.

Each year, depression affects about 6 million American men and 12 million American women, but men are 4 times as likely to commit suicide. 90 per cent of people who commit suicide have a history of depression, substance abuse, or mental illness, often in combination.
Note: NOT CAUSED BY CAREER WOMEN

Why do men commit suicide much more than women?  Is it because of career women?  No.  Is it just because of women, per se?  No.  Why not?  Because the people who are able to affect public policy (men and women) ignored men.  Men are expected to fend for themsleves and are shunned when they step forward.  This is how it has always been.  In the past 30 years, women were able to change and develop without the pressure of their gender roles.  No one, however, did the same for men.  Men were concerned about ‘saving’ women, but no one did the same for men.  So, why do men commit suicide?  It is because they have less outlets to go to for support and they are taught to “suck it up and take it like a man” when something is bothering them.  Is this all women’s fault?  No.  Why? Because men are also responsible for this.  Do I believe that women should help men, since men have helped them?  Yes.  Do I believe the feminist organization should also take responsibility for this.  Yes-but ordinary people should also.  The difference is Jewels is that if you take two people-a woman who has a mental illness (and is suicidal) to her male counterpart, the woman will almost always get the help she needs but the man (more than likely) will not.

Starting in adolescence men are much more likely to take their own lives.
Note: NOT CAUSED BY CAREER WOMEN

Men start to take their lives at this young age primarily because their roles become apparent.  Dr. Farrell sums it up by saying men have to utilize the three P’s-Perform, Pursue and Pay.  In essence, they have to figure out themselves and figure out women when both of these are nearly impossible.  Contrary to popular belief, men are also devastated when they lose love. That is why there are many more men who commit suicide after a divorce and more men take their lives when a relationship goes awry. Do I believe people should start to pay attention and address this problem?  Yes.  Do I believe women have a role to play in this?  Yes, they do.  But men do to.  Both genders should acknowledge this problem and take action to correct it.

Women attempt suicide 3 times as often as men, but the girly girls are less likely to complete the act.
Note: NOT CAUSED BY CAREER WOMEN

Yes, you are right when you say men are three times more likely to complete suicide.  But women are less likely to complete the act.  Why?  I feel it is a combination of reasons.  One reason is the fact that there is less pressure for women to compete.  Yes, women do ‘compete’, but the pressure is less (i.e. it isn’t seen as a ‘life or death’ struggle).  Why else do they succeed less in committing suicide?  Sometimes, it is for attention, but most of the time, it is because they have a better support system for them to turn to.  People also have the inclination to go to a woman and talk to her if she is in need of assistance (if she’s crying, let’s say) and to help her out.

Men’s central brain circuitry has difficulty adapting to change, so men are threatened by rapid social, political and economic change and experience a profound loss of identity, status and dignity and the only solution they can think of is to kill themselves.

I would say you are incorrect in this assertion.  That would be like a woman saying “Men are stupid and can’t accept change is taking place that benefits women”.  Men are able to accept this change and don’t mind it, up until the point where it negatively affects them and they are cut off from social support. Men do not have difficulty adapting to change and I wouldn’t say they do because of a ‘biological basis’.  If you are going to say that, then it would only be fair to say that women have difficulty adapting to political, social and economic change as well.

Similarly, male suicide rates soared during the Great Depression of the 1930s, when vast numbers of American men were unemployed. (the wife didn’t work either, but she didn’t commit suicide – blame the mancard philosophy of male expectations ….?)
Note: NOT CAUSED BY CAREER WOMEN

Male suicide rate soared during the great depression because the pressure to perform was greatly increased-and this applied to every individual.  if men failed, then there whole family would be on the street-and this was the norm for many families.  When men fail, they kill themselves because society labels them as a ‘reject’.

Job stress is a primary trigger for male suicide:
1. Having no control in decisions affecting responsibilities
2. Unrelenting and unreasonable demands for performance
3. Lack of communication/conflict-resolution methods among co-workers and employers
4. Lack of job security
5. Night-shift work, excessive overtime, or both
6. Excessive time spent away from home and family
7. Wages that don’t reflect the level of responsibility
Note: NOT CAUSED BY CAREER WOMEN

Yes, these are some of the factors involved.  What about the home situation though?  Is his wife and himself getting along?  What about the relationships with his children, if he has any?  What about his social support?  Is he getting encouragment from people and are they able to support him if he should fail?  Contrary to what people say, the male gender role (in a collective way) hasn’t changed.  Why?  Because gay men have a much higher suicide rate than lesbian women.

I’m not going to cover all of your points.  The main point that I do want to make is that men and women have different concerns and obstacles in their life.  I don’t believe that most women will be able to see what it is like to be a man.  While there are many natural high points to being a man, there are many societal downpoints to being a man, as well.  Aren’t there downpoints to being a woman?  Yes.  But society doesn’t magnify women to the same degree they do of men.  They don’t put the same amount of pressure onto women as they do to men.  What’s my point?  Society should put men and women in an equal, but positive light.

I will say one thing though.  Women do play a part in the male gender role.  If a man has success with women, then that equals success.  If a man doesn’t, then that equals despair, loneliness and suicide.  Women do have a part to play.

(Note: why that women suffer these same situations but don’t kill themselves over it? maybe male/female programming)

Wrong.  While I do believe that there are biological differences in men and women (mainly for survival tendencies and the differences can be seen in a “do or die” environment) but suicide is not one of them.  It is all cultural.  If women were placed under the same stresses, you would see the suicide rate spike for women as well.

Men suffering from hormone imbalances with low testosterone levels and ED (erectile dysfunction) so rather than get (girlyfied) hormone replacement, they kill themselves.
Note: NOT CAUSED BY CAREER WOMEN

Like I said though, the reason why they would choose suicide is because society (including women) won’t accept them and there is minimal or no funding for the problem they are suffering from. In men’s health, this is one of the thirty-four neglected areas.  I am sure this is one of the main reasons for male suicides who have erectile-dysfunction.

-LL

09-05-2006 10:53 PM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – Male Suicide Rates and Other Stats?

Re: Male Suicide Rates and Other Stats?
c4d
Contributor
c4d
one can argue that all those causes that lead to suicide are mere symptoms of a deep disease which is career women

09-05-2006 11:04 PM

Re: Male Suicide Rates and Other Stats?
Freeyourself
Regular Contributor
Freeyourself
Maybe it’s breast feeding? You mothers need to feed your sons the old fashioned way.

09-05-2006 11:13 PM

Re: Male Suicide Rates and Other Stats?
ACatInSD
Regular Contributor
ACatInSD

“one can argue that all those causes that lead to suicide are mere symptoms of a deep disease which is career women”.

Any supporting evidence/stats to prove what you just said? If none, you are brainless.

09-06-2006 01:33 AM

Re: Male Suicide Rates and Other Stats?
MartianBachelor
Regular Contributor
MartianBachelor
It seems self-evident that someone who’s “depressed” would commit suicide.

Depression: a condition of general emotional dejection and withdrawal (http://dictionary.reference.com/)
Suicide is the ultimate withdrawal.

Ergo, suicide is a form of depression.

So why are so many men withdrawing? After all, we rule the world and prance through it like gods, or so women say.

I went to a community forum on this topic some years back which was put on by the county public health department. I think our state has the second highest suicide rate in the country. They had an expert panel and all that, everyone gave their report, the panel had a discussion, and then they opened the floor up to the public for questions, though mostly it was people with either a personal tale of tragedy and its impact on so many people, or they had a political axe of some sort to grind — I remember the gay/lesbian high school group arguing they suffered 50% higher rates than their peers and that this proved their second-class status and oppression, which I thought was interesting.

The actual data was presented in the first report, and then I sat there for about 3 hours waiting for someone to say “hey, look, 83% of the suicides are men; this is pointing to something significant that is specific to men and the male role, something which we should look at and think about”. But it never happened. I felt like I was the only one there who saw the elephant in the auditorium. It would have been a socially questionable act to break up the group mindset which everyone had carefully been manuvered into by pointing to the elephant they’d already made clear they didn’t see or have any interest in acknowledging. I’m sure some of you know about Philip K. **bleep**’s take on group realities and insanity. I was sure if I stood up and got adamant about the elephant really being there I’d be carted off to the rubber room at the happy factory, or politely brushed aside.

So, unfortunately, the suicide prevention industry is made up of psychiatrists and psychologists. They naturally see everything as a srictly personal problem. (It’s the old adage about the man with a hammer, to whom everything is a nail.) Social and structural problems are outside their realm of vision. Which is why they’ve done nothing to fix the problem they claim to be dealing with. So their “FACTS” are of questionable utility.

Excellent post LL.

______________________________________________
“The loudest, most strident voices calling women weak, stupid, and incapable of competing in the world at large are the feminists.” – zed the zen priest

09-06-2006 02:35 AM

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