Career womyn versus traditional wives: damned if you do, damned if you don’t ???..


Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – Career womyn versus traditional wives: damned if you do, damned if you don’t ???..

Career womyn versus traditional wives: damned if you do, damned if you don’t ???..
CosTas
Contributor
CosTas

Having read so many posts on this and other blogs on NOT MARRYING A CAREER WOMAN, I am not altogether sure I would subscribe to some if not a majority of them. In fact, I would rather be inclined to think otherwise had I not lived in Australia for 4 years now and experienced at first hand what modern Western women are like. Ugh

As a single professional guy, I always thought that one of the reasons modern marriage is a No-Go area for any sensible professional man was the amount of emotional and financial devastation one would bring on himself should things start to go wrong. A lot of problems for men in today’s marriage seem to be the products of inflated expectations lots of modern women place on them: yet inevitably, the higher the expectations, the higher the chance they won’t be met.

Most career women want to have it both ways thus placing unrealistic demands on their male partners who are traditionally supposed to have it only one way – to work his guts out until his death “does us apart”… To say nothing about Australian women on the whole being as rough as guts with a general contempt of maleness.

Now I have been in a relationship with a very pretty young Japanese girl for 3 years, she lives in Japan but we communicate nearly every day. We met when I was a student, as poor as Job, in NZ. She never had any problems with us living on noodles and veggie soups at that time and we were just so happy… She dresses nicely, takes care of herself, has a full-time job (a dead end though, 14 hours a day…), never swears let alone smokes or drinks.

Recently, I have noticed however she is pressing me into “making up my mind”.. There is a problem however…  I don’t mind her accent (hope she doesn’t mind mine..:-) but I have a feeling she hardly has any ambition beyond starting a family and to raise children… The traditional Japanese way.. And if that happens then the overall burden very much will fall on me. If she stays at home (her chances of landing a job here will be very slim at least in the first 5-10 years even if she tries.. ), I will be the only one left to carry the working bag. And that would mean I will have to work even harder to support her and kid(s). But what if I happen to fall sick or lose my job or anything like that? Even though she will be a “traditional Asian wife” and a great housekeeper –  the fact that some guys on this blog seem to be so enthusiastic about, –  that won’t protect things from falling apart if… Also, I am sure that staying at home with kids makes one pretty dumb real quick, an asset in humans I am least impressed about….

To be honest I am not really keen on getting married, yet this seems to be the only way to bring her over here… This is a bit of a dilemma for me now guys… Doesn’t it seem to you, regardless of all the statistics in the article, that marrying a woman with a career appears to have nearly as many disadvantages as marrying a woman without?. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t..

Any suggestions please???

09-29-2006 06:46 AM

Re: Career womyn versus traditional wives: damned if you do, damned if you don’t ???..
Cassius
Regular Contributor
Cassius
If she does not let you cohabit with her before marrying, drop her. Marriage is waaay too risky to jump into it, without an 2-5 years test drive. Remember love is the illusion that she is the only one.

09-29-2006 07:23 AM

Re: Career womyn versus traditional wives: damned if you do, damned if you don’t ???..
Happy_Bullet
Regular Contributor
Happy_Bullet

You ARE damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

My advice to you is this: Continue to play the field. Starting TODAY.

Plenty of Japanese tourists and students around Australia.

A long term relationship is by nature celibate. This is no way to live your life. You also have no way of knowing what she is doing over there. Not sure if you care about this or not, but if you were expecting it to be exclusive I feel sorry for you.

Don’t drop her, don’t promise to marry her. Not being honest will bite you in the arse later. Tell her you currently have no intention of marrying her. Tell her you won’t continue to be exclusive unless she comes to Australia. Tell her this nicely and perhaps at different times. Keep her on the line but keep playing the field. She doesn’t accept, move on. You DO NOT want to be involved with a woman on her terms only.

By the way, guys that are LESS relationship focused and more “player” focused have MORE success with western and Japanese women. It’s hard because some of us appreciate the feelings of “niceness”. Doesn’t work though.

Your next port of call should be:

http://www.fastseduction.com/

That’s my honest advice.

Message Edited by Happy_Bullet on 09-29-200607:38 AM

Men have standards. Women will be compared. DEAL WITH IT.

09-29-2006 07:29 AM

Re: Career womyn versus traditional wives: damned if you do, damned if you don’t ???..
MartianBachelor
Regular Contributor
MartianBachelor
Yep, women’s brains can’t be all that advanced if they can relate so well to four year-olds… This is just the way it goes for most men; I’ve heard it described as being like being married to a younger sister. A career woman might be slightly better in this regard. The ideal which is being held up to everyone, the super-duper-life-companion-of-the-opposite-sex (aka soulmate), is a very rare occurrence.

Here’s the crux of your situation IMO:

“I have noticed however she is pressing me into ‘making up my mind’…”

Making up your mind about marriage, and marriage to her specifically, we all presume. Clearly you haven’t, so you need to tell her to “back off”. Make her realize that her pressuring you on this would be like you (or any other man) pressuring her for sex, which I’m guessing she wouldn’t like.

Some women can’t talk about these things in the abstract, as we do here, without thinking the discussion has something to do with them. So I don’t know if “communication” would really help; in other words, you can maybe say where you’re at but not expect much help from her since you already know what her object is or seems to be.

Our limitation here is in us not knowing what was said when this whole thing got started. A lot of women have this sequence in mind from the very start about dating leading to “going steady” to “really being an item” to getting engaged to getting married (to getting divorced.. HaHa). And “progress” has to be continual or the relationship is “going nowhere”. But they forget to tell us guys that they’re enlisting us in their treadmill plan. So a lot depends on what the initial “negotiations” involved. The whole thing makes me think she views you as a relationship object, the “man prize” of her campaign. Difficult to tell from here.

Keep telling her “maybe”. That usually works regardless of the situation.

______________________________________________
“The loudest, most strident voices calling women weak, stupid, and incapable of competing in the world at large are the feminists.” – zed the zen priest

09-29-2006 09:13 AM

Re: Career womyn versus traditional wives: damned if you do, damned if you don’t ???..
Diogetrix
Regular Contributor
Diogetrix

Dear Damned,
Considering the fact that there is in Japan a trend of men refusing to marry, possibly for the same general reasons as here in the states, you can assume that marriage in Japan has much of the same liabilities for men as here and probably in Australia. I see three questions here: 1, Do you really want to have a marriage and children enough to pay for it and put up with it, 2, Do you have other options for residency in a more man friendly (equitable) country, 3, Have you met and examined the psychological and domestic situation of her parents and siblings. That can tell you a lot more about your future with her than anything else, other things being equal.

09-29-2006 03:33 PM

Re: Career womyn versus traditional wives: damned if you do, damned if you don’t ???..
CosTas
Contributor
CosTas

“If she does not let you cohabit with her before marrying, drop her. Marriage is waaay too risky to jump into it, without an 2-5 years test drive. Remember love is the illusion that she is the only one.”

Cassius

True. Freud once said that love is an overestimation of a sexual object with an evitable “waking up” to a grim reality sooner or later… She did come to visit me here earlier this year for a fortnight, but she cannot stay in Oz for 2-5 years on a tourist visa. I am CERTAIN not dating anyone in Tokyo. She’s got lots of charm and feminity that is so hard to find in a modern WW (please do not take it is as a stab at anyone here). Even my female work colleagues said she was “gorgeous” but “too conservative” Haha, just jealousy, I know.  …. She is 21. However, I just have this constant feeling that I am dealing … with a kid…

09-29-2006 10:31 PM

Re: Career womyn versus traditional wives: damned if you do, damned if you don’t ???..
CosTas
Contributor
CosTas

Don’t drop her, don’t promise to marry her. Not being honest will bite you in the arse later. Tell her you currently have no intention of marrying her. Tell her you won’t continue to be exclusive unless she comes to Australia. Tell her this nicely and perhaps at different times. Keep her on the line but keep playing the field. She doesn’t accept, move on. You DO NOT want to be involved with a woman on her terms only.

Happy-Bullet

Firstly, I want to say thanks for your other comments (on other threads) – you seem to have had you fingers grilled a bit in the past, didn’t you? Anyway, good read indeed.

Now, from my personal experience, telling a girl you “currently have no intention of marrying her” just doesn’t work in the guy’s favour. In all my former dealings with women, they all seemed to have only one agenda (albeit a hidden one) – marriage. For all that insane feminist propaganda, a good marriage is still very much in the centre of so many women’s fantasies that it’s just plain stupid to pretend otherwise.

Yes, she will sleep with you, she will try to be nice and cook and please you yet inevitably a day will come when she’ll try to ask you for a paycheque in the form of an engagement ring.

Another problem is that girls tend to think with their own emotions and do not seem to understand your logic. For women “currently have no intention of marrying her” looks pretty much like your rejection of her (of course translated to all of her GFs as “I just wasted my time on that loser, yeah”).

In other words, it’s almost like a GF saying “currently have no intention of sleeping with you”. Not very promising to hear for a guy, is it?

09-29-2006 10:34 PM

Re: Career womyn versus traditional wives: damned if you do, damned if you don’t ???..
CosTas
Contributor
CosTas

PS

“You DO NOT want to be involved with a woman on her terms only”.

When a relationship becomes marriage, men lose just so much of power over their partners they had before it’s becomes negligible.. Even “modern marriage” is as much a female-dominated social structure as a car factory assembly line a domain of dominance for men. Even in Japan, women are in charge of the family finances – when the Japanese stock market collapsed in 1992, thousands of women lost billions in investments that their husbands never knew they had made. My point being even if you enter a relationship “not only on a woman’s terms”, that’ll wear off pretty quick afterwards.

09-29-2006 10:36 PM

Re: Career womyn versus traditional wives: damned if you do, damned if you don’t ???..
CosTas
Contributor
CosTas

MartianBachelor

“Our limitation here is in us not knowing what was said when this whole thing got started. A lot of women have this sequence in mind from the very start about dating leading to “going steady” to “really being an item” to getting engaged to getting married (to getting divorced.. HaHa). And “progress” has to be continual or the relationship is “going nowhere”. But they forget to tell us guys that they’re enlisting us in their treadmill plan. So a lot depends on what the initial “negotiations” involved. The whole thing makes me think she views you as a relationship object, the “man prize” of her campaign. Difficult to tell from here.”

You are making a good point here: unless dating is getting her to marriage, it is just a waste of her time at the best, and you being a liar to use her youth and beauty, at the worst. So true.

On the other hand, the “initial negotiations” don’t seem to have any weight in the relationship in the long term simply because a relationship is ever changing. Initially, she didn’t’ want anything beyond just “being friends” but soon things became pretty hot, so yeah… Another thing, she refused to have sex at first and upset me with her remarks. But believe it or not she called me a couple of months ago to say she was soooo sorry she didn’t realise she was that stupid 3 years ago…

I am not that gullible to believe in fairy tales but at least I appreciated her saying that now.

Dear Diogetrix,

Considering the fact that there is in Japan a trend of men refusing to marry, possibly for the same general reasons as here in the states, you can assume that marriage in Japan has much of the same liabilities for men as here and probably in Australia. I see three questions here: 1, Do you really want to have a marriage and children enough to pay for it and put up with it, 2, Do you have other options for residency in a more man friendly (equitable) country, 3, Have you met and examined the psychological and domestic situation of her parents and siblings. That can tell you a lot more about your future with her than anything else, other things being equal.

You are right here too. And considering the fact that she works from 8.30 till 11 pm nearly every day in a shipping company, makes her chances of finding a prince charming a Japan even slimmer than if she was in the US or Australia. She showed our photographs to her girl-friends at work and got remarks like “Oh but he looks like Tom Cruise!”. Yeah, I think the whole thing could be just an ego-boosting thing for her too..

1.       the answer is NO

2.       Not at the moment, cos I am paying off my mortgage but in a few short years – yes.

3.       Her dad – a Japanese teacher-  has been out of work for a few years (just a lazy **bleep**), her mum works to support him and 2 other kids (my GF works). They just moved in a new flat – her room is so small, there are not even windows…

Considering our situations, I just don’t know how other thing can “be equal”. Thanks. Origato J

09-29-2006 10:38 PM

Re: Career womyn versus traditional wives: damned if you do, damned if you don’t ???..
Happy_Bullet
Regular Contributor
Happy_Bullet

Firstly, I want to say thanks for your other comments (on other threads) – you seem to have had you fingers grilled a bit in the past, didn’t you?

Thanks, but what does that mean exactly? LOL. If you’re talking about my meat grinder of a mother, or my experience at Amnesty International then yeah, but I’ve not had so many problems with girlfriends.

I have good screening procedures and good “getting out of exclusive relationship” procedures and then good appropriately timed dumping procedures as well

In all my former dealings with women, they all seemed to have only one agenda (albeit a hidden one) – marriage.

Yeah this is more of a “make him a provider” agenda. Marriage is just a means to do that. They’ll try to get you in a position where you are just ONE of her providers so consider not giving any ground at all.

Look, it doesn’t matter what she wants or what her agenda is, you’re better off ignoring it and focusing on your own. If you entertain her agenda too much she’ll just try to get as much of it as she can man.

For women “currently have no intention of marrying her” looks pretty much like your rejection of her (of course translated to all of her GFs as “I just wasted my time on that loser, yeah”).

Hehe. Too bad for her then. You’re under no obligation to meet her needs without yours being met.

In other words, it’s almost like a GF saying “currently have no intention of sleeping with you”. Not very promising to hear for a guy, is it?

First of all, you’re not sleeping with her at the moment, and she seems to have given you the idea that there will be no contact unless you are willing to marry.
Second of all, women just continuously pull this sh*t. They’re patient and persistent. She has to believe something like “you might come around if she behaves well enough”, then just stretch it forever. So tell her, “It’s not on the cards at the moment because you simply aren’t that attached to her living in another blimmen country”. Put your foot down on it dude, or I swear it will come back to haunt you. Eventually you’ll either be forced into doing it, or she’ll go all the more ballistic when she realises you lied.

You could just lie to her and say “yeah I’ll marry you” with no intention of doing it, but I swear she’ll ask you to put your money where your mouth is sooner or later, or simply use the fact you haven’t done it as leverage.

My point being even if you enter a relationship “not only on a woman’s terms”, that’ll wear off pretty quick afterwards.

Yeah they’re persistent little buggers, but that doesn’t mean you have to resign yourself to your fate. The more committed you get the deeper in this hole you get, so avoid the commitment.. LOL.

You seem really worried that even if you get out of it now she’ll try again. You’re right! So you’ll have to keep putting your foot down on it until she gets too much of a pain in the arse. Then drop her.

Anyway why trouble yourself with this stuff when you could just play the field. That’s your Best Alternative To Negotiated Agreement. It’s good! So you have the leverage here. Use it.

Message Edited by Happy_Bullet on 09-29-200611:29 PM

Men have standards. Women will be compared. DEAL WITH IT.

09-29-2006 11:27 PM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – Career womyn versus traditional wives: damned if you do, damned if you don’t ???..

Re: Career womyn versus traditional wives: damned if you do, damned if you don’t ???..
MartianBachelor
Regular Contributor
MartianBachelor
“I have … good ‘getting out of exclusive relationship’ procedures and then good appropriately timed dumping procedures as well”

I had to laugh… it’s some sort of comment on where we are now that these are almost essential “assets” one has to bring to the situation.

______________________________________________
“The loudest, most strident voices calling women weak, stupid, and incapable of competing in the world at large are the feminists.” – zed the zen priest

09-30-2006 07:02 PM

Re: Career womyn versus traditional wives: damned if you do, damned if you don’t ???..
PatriarchVerlch
Regular Contributor
PatriarchVerlch

There is always enough for a simple life. If you have a non contentious woman to marry, go for it!!! You know, if you can find a woman that doesn’t mind paying the bills over super nice gifts on her birthday and christmas, than you are a lucky man!!!

Women have been proving for the last 30 years that men have been right for the last 30 centuries!
http://www.verlch.blogspot.com

09-30-2006 07:24 PM

Re: Career womyn versus traditional wives: damned if you do, damned if you don’t ???..
Happy_Bullet
Regular Contributor
Happy_Bullet

I have … good ‘getting out of exclusive relationship’ procedures and then good appropriately timed dumping procedures as well”

I had to laugh… it’s some sort of comment on where we are now that these are almost essential “assets” one has to bring to the situation.

LOL!

They ARE though, really, they are mutually beneficial. Allow me to explain:

1. If I’m not exclusive with a chick what she does is completely immaterial to me(and let’s face it she’ll do whatever she wants regardless of the arrangement). I am under no obligations, she is under no obligations.

2. At some point in many relationships they become so strained that having one another under no obligations (ie. to STFU about something being a popular example) becomes untenable and negotiations are becoming more trouble than they are worth. Rather than becoming “controlling”, I become “leaving”. They don’t want a deal I consider fair, I don’t beat them, shout at them or stress about it, I leave and look for the next one.

It’s essentially my “playing the field” procedures. Essential in a world where marriage is a raw deal for guys and the fairest thing women can expect.

Men have standards. Women will be compared. DEAL WITH IT.

09-30-2006 11:41 PM

Re: Career womyn versus traditional wives: damned if you do, damned if you don’t ???..
CosTas
Contributor
CosTas

As expected, last night she asked me for an engagement ring…

DITCH!

10-06-2006 09:18 PM

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