Love and Marriage


For some reason, this post made me think of Pook’s take on Matriarchy vs. Patriarchy:Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – Love and Marriage

Love and Marriage
barbara
Regular Visitor
barbara

I am responding to khankrumthebulg’s message of 8.25.06
He sounds like a good man. With good values. I am introducing him to one of the 527 men I interviewed for my book.  There are lots of good men out there – they just have to relax and see the humor in the whole thing.

Excerpt:

Kurt tortures his lemon slice into a submissive knot and plops it into the big tumbler.  This afternoon Kurt is in a hurry to talk.  He will say what he has to say.  I will gather up his thoughts, add them to my growing collection of information, and begin to carve out a template of the modern male mind.

Kurt smiles.  He’s happy to examine the issues, happier still for the audience.  “My mind’s like a bad neighborhood,” he explains.  “I don’t like to go in there alone because I might get mugged.”

I laugh; he’s obviously joking, as our previous conversation has shown that Kurt’s personal life is a far cry from the fast-lane image he projects.  He has managed to remain happily married to the same woman for fifteen years.  Impressive anywhere; phenomenal in a place like Los Angeles, where relationships go into a turnaround faster than development deals.

“So,” I begin, “what are you doing that makes it so right?”

“It’s simple,” he replies.  “Relationships are all about . . . your word.  In the end, the only thing you’ve got is your word.

“If you build your word on your emotions, you’re building on a weak foundation that is going to shift and change.  It’s going to all fall apart.  It just doesn’t work that way.

“See I don’t think that love is a feeling, that’s not it.  Love is my word.  When I say I Love You, I’ve given you my word, and now I have to create that love; not on how I feel, but because I say so.”

“So when I’m angry, I have to still create love.” His voice gets louder. “When you piss me off or you do something that makes me not want to love you, I have to say, ‘I still love you.’  People don’t know how to . . . no one keeps their word anymore.”

I think about my interviews with men who place no value on their word; juxtapose it against the thinly veneered female competition raging around us.  I wonder about the cost of cloning Kurt.

“From one day to the next, I don’t know where my job’s going to be,” he says.  “Every time we make a date, it ends up getting broken.  If Annie didn’t know I was committed to our relationship, she’d go ‘this guy’s a flake.’  So I have to make it work.  There has to be some kind of intention that glues it all together.”

Once again Kurt is using his eyes to pin me down.

I blush . . . for no good reason.

“It’s the difference between me making the world fit my word or my word fit the world.  It’s really what it comes down to.  You understand?  It comes from inside, I make it work because I say so.  For me, it’s strictly because I say so.  My word is more powerful than everything else.”

This all sounds great . . . almost too good.  This is LA, and maybe his rap, as genuine as it seems, is just a prop – real on the surface, but propped up like two-by-fours and phony as a back lot set.  I probe his lines, testing.  “You mean once you tell someone you love them – you make yourself love them?

“No,” he says, “but if I finally do tell someone something as important as “I love you,” then all I have is my word on how I say it’s going to be.  And I stick to my word.”

“So what happens if you change your mind?”

He knits his fingers together thoughtfully, leans in for emphasis.  “The difference is, do I change my mind or do I change my commitment?  A lot of people let their feelings dictate their lives.

“They wake up, they don’t feel good, they don’t want to work, so they don’t go to work.  They feel like they’re in love the night before, they wake up and they don’t feel in love.   If I let all that stuff around me dictate how I am or how I act, I’ve got no power.  I’ve given my power away.  The only fact that I have is what I say.”

“Where did you get all this self-discipline from?” I ask him.

He smiles, “My mother.  It has to do with self-respect.  You have to find something to pull you on.  She gave me that.  You give your word – you  keep your word.”

“But how did you know your love was real?”

“You just do,” he says.  “You can’t imagine it into being.  It’s just there . . .”

Kurt continues.  “I know there are other women out there who might be more my physical type, you know, bigger women.  I’m a big person physically and Annie is small. I think that you can have everything you want in life, but if your vision of what that is, is attached to some picture . . . you’ll probably get disappointed.

“There’s a certain distraction that I see in all my single friends.  They could be twenty or forty, they could be sixty-whatever. They’re always chasing this elusive train. They never really get to where they want to get to in their lives because they are always chasing this thing they don’t have.  Even with sex, if you think sex is going to be this big ‘pay off’ in a relationship, you’re out of your mind.  The pay off is in hanging in there.  When you really start to build that friendship that can’t be broken, no matter what, that’s the pay off.

“Annie and I have the ability to create a new relationship every time it gets old. Right now we’re creating a whole new relationship.  We’re working on having a baby.”

I congratulate him.  He cautions me . . . “Not yet!”

He stretches one leg and tips back in his chair. “We don’t want to have a kid built on the old relationship.  It won’t work.  The old relationship was two separate individuals and their own individual lives going down this road.  You have to have some commitment, with a common thread that the relationship hangs on that allows you to swing and dangle without breaking.”

I pause in the questioning.  I’m impressed; if this is bull, it’s world-class.  But I don’t think so.  Kurt seems earnest, and both his answers and his worldview fundamentally make sense. “Why have you lasted this long with Annie?” I ask. “Can you sum it up for me?”

Kurt smiles.  “’Cause she was my first love, and you can’t replace that,” he says.  The words are soft and sexy as they leave his lips.

10-08-2006 03:23 PM

Re: Love and Marriage
MartianBachelor
Regular Contributor
MartianBachelor
“…they [men] just have to relax and see the humor in the whole thing.”

Just like women who were being raped were once jokingly told to “lie back and enjoy it”?

Message Edited by MartianBachelor on 10-08-200602:07 PM

______________________________________________
“The loudest, most strident voices calling women weak, stupid, and incapable of competing in the world at large are the feminists.” – zed the zen priest

10-08-2006 03:37 PM

Re: Love and Marriage
khankrumthebulg
Regular Contributor
khankrumthebulg
There are many kinds of Love. Committed Love is the Love that endures based on Principle not on Transitory Romantic Feelings. It is an acknowledgement of the unique and special characteristics of another person. And their inherent worth to you. You make a sound judgement that this person is special to you. That regardless of circumstances that you are committed to them. This is not easy. And relationships change over time. As human beings we age. We get less physically attractive. If you are Married for Sex you are an idiot.

If you are a Woman who marries for Romance you are a fool. You are buying Fools Gold. Real Love is a concious commitment, and your honor is at stake. Your word is what defines you as a human being. Our Women have bought into a line of BS. Thinking their Husband must be handsome, rich, always thinking of them etc. Our Women too many of them are stuck in a form of arrested development emotionally. They have never really grown up.

10-08-2006 04:01 PM

Re: Love and Marriage
Diogetrix
Regular Contributor
Diogetrix

One of the good things about message boards in lieu of personal interaction and discussion is that idiots have to display their moronic utterances, and cleverly miss the point at issue in a sequential sort of way. Much better than everyone sending emanations of doltish energy into the cybersphere all at once.

First, let me say that this bimbo can’t write for sh(censor me if thou wilt)it. If there ever was a literary genre that doomed itself by its very birth, it is “self help” books. Much like the literary equivalent of disco.

But, polemically speaking, let’s get this Helen Guernsey Browne crying in the wilderness a bowl of kitty chow and a salt lick.

First, we don’t believe in Kurt. Even if you did interview someone that you see as Kurt, we might see someone completely different – which is, I expect, the reason that he is presented through your editiorializing eyes. And, of course, for every “Kurt” you can dig up, someone with a differing point of view can find ten more representative “Kurts” in any one of a thousand divorce court proceedings in any city in the USA on any weekday.

Second, did anyone internalize, or even comprehend, the point of what I have said about overheard conversations, and dog-and-pony-shows being more persuasive as propaganda than direct informing of a subject? Especially true when the intended message is values, opinions, and perception.

Third, the most basic issue of this whole board is that women have the power to destroy a man when she changes her mind (or implements a previously planned “change of mind” and dissolves a marriage. Kurt isn’t the issue; it’s his chick.

Your implication and insinuation that Kurt is a great guy because he’s exactly the kind of chump that women find perfect for any use, should fall on deaf or dubious ears in this discussion. I can only hope.

10-08-2006 07:38 PM

Re: Love and Marriage
toadman
Regular Contributor
toadman

“He sounds like a good man. With good values.”

And this fits the premise of your book? Khank couldn’t give a rats a$$ what you think of him nor most of us. Manipulation at it’s epitome.

“I am introducing him to one of the 527 men I interviewed for my book.”

Why would he or anyone want a discussion with men who validate your argument? It’s coercive and again scheming manipulation validating your viewpoint and agenda.

“There are lots of good men out there – they just have to relax and see the humor in the whole thing.”

There’s nothing humorous about 4 decades of western societal upheaval  redefining the family model that has caused financial, emotional and physical ruin to fathers and the children they sire.

Barbara may I ask your age and marital status? It’s pertinent to the discussion.

Message Edited by toadman on 10-08-200607:23 PM

10-08-2006 10:17 PM

Re: Love and Marriage
PatriarchVerlch
Regular Contributor
PatriarchVerlch

Your implication and insinuation that Kurt is a great guy because he’s exactly the kind of chump that women find perfect for any use, should fall on deaf or dubious ears in this discussion. I can only hope.

Well said my liberal friend. Actually all of what you just said. Some of it was worth a trip to Comedy Central.

Kurt is just the kind of pansy that gets rolled on in Divorce court by the wrong chick. Kurt married the 25% of Californication women who will never get divorced. With 75% of California marriages headed to Divorce Court, Kurt is a luckey man. I wonder what the percentage of females in California are the ones initiating the divorce proceedings. Elsewhere in America that is between 75-85%, there it is probably 99%, .

I guess women need just about every head start program available to them, to be able to compete with men. Hopefully the rest of the world will never look like us!

Women have been proving for the last 30 years that men have been right for the last 30 centuries!
http://www.verlch.blogspot.com

10-09-2006 12:53 AM

Re: Love and Marriage
Cassius
Regular Contributor
Cassius
Isnt it strange that women speak of love when it comes to marriage, but look at certain qualities picking their partners ?

10-09-2006 10:12 AM

Re: Love and Marriage
PatriarchVerlch
Regular Contributor
PatriarchVerlch

I’ve come to conclude that American women want unconditional love attached with performance. They will love you, but you had better perform and their love is subject to change, WITHOUT WARNING.

That’s what women do, try to please us in exchange for Love and Attention from us?

Women have been proving for the last 30 years that men have been right for the last 30 centuries!
http://www.verlch.blogspot.com

10-09-2006 10:44 AM

Re: Love and Marriage
porkchops38
Regular Contributor
porkchops38

Cassius wrote:
Isnt it strange that women speak of love when it comes to marriage, but look at certain qualities picking their partners ?

Yes indeed, there’s a lot of strange things about women. A poor bald fat man is not much of a candidate for “love” with a western woman nowadays, but if you take that same bald fat man and throw him in a corvette convertible and slap $10 million net worth sign on his forehead he becomes an instant chick-magnet. I noticed these things about women when I was a youngin’.

Another strange thing about western women, is that they still prefer a traditional white wedding dress. A traditional white wedding dress was a symbol of the woman’s virginity at marriage, yet 90% of American women are not virgins on their wedding day, so I say to he11 with with white wedding dresses — American women can stop that con. American women should dress like the whores they are on their wedding day — get a black dress even — that would be more fitting symbolically. Or, perhaps American women could dress in the same short mini-skirt and push-up bra highlighting their cleavage that they were wearing when they met the fool that marries them! LMAO!

I was reading a story about abortion, and this one woman got an abortion because she was getting married in a few months and she said she didn’t want to “look fat” in her wedding dress. I pity the poor fool that marries that heartless skank.

The other strange thing is how so many women view prenuptial agreements as not so “loving”… LMAO! They want “love” going into the marriage, but “love” has no place when the marriage is dissolved. The bottom line, is that most American women don’t have any clue what “love” truly is. If “love” is all American women want, then they should get rid of all the things that impede “love” with American women such as — alimony, child-support, marital property laws, divorce laws, AA quotas, preferential treatment in hiring and promotions, etc. If “love” is all American women want — then get rid of all that B.S. that impedes “love”. Until then, men have every right to shun emotional attachment with such self-serving skanks that hide behind anti-male laws and then cry “you men don’t love us women enough, waaaaahh, waaaaah, waaaaah!” LMAO! Good God, what a bunch of messed-up, drugged-up on anti-depressants, cat-herder crybabies, Ameriskanks have become. They have the strong-arm of the law behind Ameriskanks 100% and yet they still cry and whine like little children that can’t get enough candy and soda-pop. I’m a man and I’ve got crapped on 1,000 times already by anti-male laws, yet these assinine women have all the laws stacked in their favor and they still whine and biitch that men don’t “love” them! LMAO! Go get a cat or a dog, that’s the only thing stupid enough to “love” a self-serving skank.

10-09-2006 11:09 AM

Re: Love and Marriage
CosTas
Contributor
CosTas

“there’s a lot of strange things about women..”
LOL , Porkchops
Well done!
One can’t buy that kind of insight!

10-09-2006 09:56 PM

==============================================================================
Click on the board or message subject at the top to return.

Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – Love and Marriage

Re: Love and Marriage
Happy_Bullet
Regular Contributor
Happy_Bullet

The bottom line, is that most American women don’t have any clue what “love” truly is. If “love” is all American women want, then they should get rid of all the things that impede “love” with American women such as — alimony, child-support, marital property laws, divorce laws, AA quotas, preferential treatment in hiring and promotions, etc. If “love” is all American women want — then get rid of all that B.S. that impedes “love”.

PRECISELY!!!

Exactly spot on with that Porkchops.

The funny thing is they try to shame us into accepting that out of “love”. As in “our love for them”. But let’s ignore the other direction here…

I’d add to that the question of:

How much does SHE really love the guy if she expects him to accept THAT raw deal??

Men have standards. Women will be compared. DEAL WITH IT.

10-09-2006 11:35 PM

Re: Love and Marriage
porkchops38
Regular Contributor
porkchops38
“How much does SHE really love the guy if she expects him to accept THAT raw deal??”

Exactly Happy Bullet.

The laws today are akin to putting a half-loaded cocked-revolver to the head of a man, and the woman saying “Let’s play a game of russian roulette because I “love” you!” That’s not love, that’s sadistic. I think all this got out of hand incrementally, like the frog in the water pot analogy. We are too far gone down the road of “women’s rights”, and that frog doesn’t have the ability to jump out of the pot of boiling water. The frog is history. All we can do is, grab some popcorn and beer, sit back, and watch the hysterical women drug themselves on anti-depressants and their children on ritalin as society goes from insanity to deeper insanity and eventually implodes, and 100 generations of slavery ensues.

All this came about because women like barbara have this twisted and psychotic notion that the mark of a “real man” is one who will die for the woman he loves. No, the mark of a real man is one who will make dying one of the last things on earth that he does, so he can be around to guide his wife and children, that’s love. Real men don’t go around with a martyr complex, but an assinine woman wouldn’t understand this.

Yes it is true that men are the stronger gender, and that’s precisely why when all this “women’s rights” garbage came down the pike at the first, men probably just chalked it up by saying something like “Oh well, the widdle women just need a little help because afterall they are the weaker gender”. However, the old saying is true, “give them an inch, and they’ll want a mile.” Now, instead of an inch, this “women’s rights” insanity has stretched to the moon and back. Like I say, this all happened before I was an adult, so when I got here society was already screwed-up. I’m just playing the hand that was dealt me, and russian roulette is not a game i’m fond of playing, nor does russian roulette or having a martyr complex have anything to do with real “love”, quite the opposite is true.

10-10-2006 11:35 AM

Re: Love and Marriage
MartianBachelor
Regular Contributor
MartianBachelor
Another strange thing about western women, is that they still prefer a traditional white wedding dress…

I’ve always liked Rich Zubaty’s suggestion that the wedding dress should be burned as a final part of the ceremony.

And they accuse us of perpetuating the madonna/whore thing…

______________________________________________
“The loudest, most strident voices calling women weak, stupid, and incapable of competing in the world at large are the feminists.” – zed the zen priest

10-10-2006 11:36 AM

Re: Love and Marriage
HappyMom
Regular Contributor
HappyMom
women like barbara have this twisted and psychotic notion that the mark of a “real man” is one who will die for the woman he loves.

You might like this quote:
“No mtter how much a woman loves a man, she would always love it more for him to kill himself for her”

I might have the wording a little off but you get the picture.

Message Edited by HappyMom on 10-10-200606:10 PM

10-10-2006 06:09 PM

Re: Love and Marriage
porkchops38
Regular Contributor
porkchops38
Here’s the quote from Patton:

“Now, I want you to remember that no **bleep** ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb **bleep** die for his country.”

For me, dying is going to be one of the last things I do on this earth. I have no martyr complex, and usually men that do have martyr complexes are pu$$ies like muslims. In fact, I think the word “martyr” is actually an ancient arabic word that means “$hitty fighter”.

Happy Mom, I know several married men who practically work themselves to death for their families. One guy I know has been married for 25 years and has 4 kids. He’s worked the last 25 years in construction. His doctors tell him that he’s got the bones of a 70 year old man and he’s only 48. His wife was a stay-at-home mom who could barely cook and clean, the husband would have to get up a 5 am and not be able to find any clean clothes to wear because his SAHM wife didn’t like to do laundry. His wife threatened to divorce him and take away his kids and money if he didn’t like doing his own laundry and cooking, so he stayed unhappily married. Other than birthing 4 children and raising them to school age, his wife has been nothing but dead-weight in their marriage. Once the kids went to school, his wife just sits at home and watches tv all day. Like I say, she threatened her husband with divorce if he complained. Whenever I think I should be married, I just go over to his house and hear my buddy complain about his aches and pains in his bones and then listen to the whiny voice of his wife — and suddenly any thoughts of marriage for me quickly disipate.

10-10-2006 10:23 PM

Re: Love and Marriage
CosTas
Contributor
CosTas

The laws today are akin to putting a half-loaded cocked-revolver to the head of a man, and the woman saying “Let’s play a game of russian roulette because I “love” you!”

Now let me make something clear.. Only one out of six chamebrs of the gun is loeaded in Russian roulette, yet you still do not see everyone playing it. Not so with the marriage where divorce rates are about 40% in Australia.
The 16.5% of getting your brains blown out is still far better than the approximately 40% chance a man stands of having his life destroyed by a divorce in the Western world..

The “I love you” game with modern women is pretty much akin to a computer game where you sit and listen to the background I-love-you BS while watching the radar screens trying to catch the nuclear missiles coming over the horizon in time to shoot them out of the blue sky before the leave a huge crater where you life and freedom used to be.

10-11-2006 02:25 AM

Re: Love and Marriage
porkchops38
Regular Contributor
porkchops38
The divorce rate for first marriages in America is currently about 50% and still rising, that’s why the gun you’re playing russian roulette with is “half-loaded”, i.e. half = 50%. I hope that helps.

10-11-2006 09:15 AM

==============================================================================
Click on the board or message subject at the top to return.

Advertisements
%d bloggers like this: