The Psycho Moment: Engagement


Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – The Psycho Moment: Engagement

The Psycho Moment: Engagement
khankrumthebulg
Regular Contributor
khankrumthebulg
http://bristol.craigslist.org/about/best/chi/28204977.html

Date: 2004-04-06, 4:35PM CDT

Some years have passed, so I can talk about this now. Many many moons ago, I started dating this very cool girl. We hit it off right away, had lots in common, she was smart, agressive, cool and funny. And hot. Really hot. So we dated for a while, which became a year, then nearly two. I figured she was it. We worked together on decisions, but I followed my passions and she followed hers – both career professionals, both creative, and both ready to kick this town for a Carribean cottage if the thought ever struck us. Adventure. Romance. Lots of Sex. All was right with my world. So I did what I figured I should do – I went out shopping for a diamond ring.

That was the biggest mistake I ever made. I can’t really put my finger on the exact change, but over the years, I’ve cometo summarize it this way: I went from being the guy she loved and wanted to marry to the guy who didn’t match up with her fantasy about getting married, in about 24 hours. She started acting as if I was completely incapable of making any decisons on my own, in spite of the evidence to the contrary. She criticized everything I did. She tried to make me look like some idiot, Homer Simpson type.

Now, I’m not splitting atoms in the basement or anything, but I was Fulbright kid for a year and graduated **bleep** laude, and I have a tendency to avoid dumb **bleep** like telemarking scams, computer viruses, STD’s and, well, white slavery rings. Let’s just say I’m no Homer. Then the wedding planning started, and HO LEE **bleep**. We were doing alright, for sure, but she had put together about a 45K day for us in a matter of a week or two. When I objected to some ridiculous expense (bunting? WTF?), I was told I was wrong, or “didn’t know what I was talking about” and, unless I wanted a big fight, I shut up right there. Trust me, when I balked at the cost of flowers, I was nearly decapitated.

Nearly all of this, I was told, was “What she always wanted”. Well, I always wanted 15 playboy bunnies oiled up on a water bed in the horniest state known to womankind, which I think might have actually cost LESS, but I was pretty sure it wasn’t going to happen. I hit the ceiling when I saw the guestlist. 225. I barely know 225 people, let alone want to feed them and watch them get drunk while my savings account cries to me over the phone “You have ZERO dollars and 22 cents”. Who is this? That? A bartender you know? I don’t even LIKE that girl! One night, I told her this: You know what, you’re going to have about as much fun, possibly more, if I don’t show up at this thing. She laughed. So I bailed. Yup, I packed my **bleep** and hit the door, a good 4 months prior to the date of my pre-planned, ever-priced, heavily adorned demise. I called it off, packed my **bleep** and left.

And I have never looked back. Oh, we had a big talk. It was about as much fun as you’d expect. I got my hair blown back for an hour or so, but I was already numb. She’d been yelling at me about this and that for so long, I couldn’t tell anymore when she was mad or not. Maybe the hardest part was that I was having incredible sucess, in lots of things, while all this was happening.

Musically, professionaly – things were really coming together for me. And she couldn’t be pleased. In the end, it’s her loss, but I’ve always wondered what the **bleep** she was thinking. The moral to this story? Engagement Ring – $3800.00 (never got it back) Non-Refundable Deposits – $5200.00 (all my money) Moving Expenses – $750.00 Being Single again – Priceless.
28204977

09-26-2006 07:37 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
AngryMuppet
Regular Contributor
AngryMuppet
What a **bleep** and a coward. So instead of standing up to her, telling her what he wanted, and working it out, he caved in to avoid fights, and then bailed.

I had a similar thing happen when I was getting married. You know what I did? I put my foot down on the extravagance, stepped up, and helped plan the thing myself. I brought the whole deal in for under $5000, and that included the rings. And my wife respects me a hell of a lot more now, too, because I stood up for myself like a man does instead of giving up and crapping out. I have no sympathy for the dude in the article. None.

09-26-2006 07:46 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
minx12
Regular Contributor
minx12

Holy Bridezilla Batman! She was way crazy!

But why in the world did he not stand up to her say No! At least if he did that way and SHE bailed, at least he’d get the ring back (remember she is under no obligation to return the ring if you bail).

It was clear that they were not going to suit. A couple who can’t communicate at the very beginning of a marriage certainly aren’t going to hack it in the long run. Good riddance for the both of them I am sure.

09-26-2006 07:51 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
tellafriend
Regular Contributor
tellafriend

Oh is that why you cower and cater to the feminist opinion on here? Your balls are in your wife’s purse and you have the nerve to look down your nose at this guy?..hahah good one.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

09-26-2006 07:55 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
porkchops38
Regular Contributor
porkchops38
That story sounds just like me. I would be married today had I not bailed on the career woman that was giving me the hottest $ex ever. Everything changed after I proposed. I wised up quick to what the he11 was going on, and never seen her since!

I have come to realize that a lot of career women have this certain phenomena. I have come to the realization that most, if not all, career women are going after careers to make-up for their lack of self-esteem. In other words, careers to women (especially child-less women) are the antidote for their very very low self-esteem. Thus, when a man such as myself proposes to one of these career women — I just made the career woman view me with contempt. When a career woman views herself as a piece of sh1t deep down inside herself, any man that proposes to such a piece of sh1t, automatically marks himself as a piece of sh1t (or lower) simply for desiring to marry her/enagement with her/or even saying “i love you” to her. I’ve seen it so many times already, I don’t need further proof.

09-26-2006 08:19 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
Diogetrix
Regular Contributor
Diogetrix

It occurs to me that if you have to ‘stand up to’ a woman at some expense to your energy and emotional peace over trivial (the thing, not the expense being trivial) then in future when you have to stand up to her over some more portentious matter – like children, residential choices, her mother, frequency of sex, whether or not that was a real orgasm, who gets custody of the CD’s and your friends, and how much maintenance and child support she wants … you wouldn’t be able to ‘bail’ at that point. The police and social workers, judges, crisis intervention teams, female relatives, new boyfriend, and a few other resources will be holding her corner in case you try to fight back.

09-26-2006 09:17 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
OneSmartChick
Regular Contributor
OneSmartChick

It occurs to me that if you have to ‘stand up to’ a woman at some expense to your energy and emotional peace over trivial (the thing, not the expense being trivial) then in future when you have to stand up to her over some more portentious matter – like children, residential choices, her mother, frequency of sex, whether or not that was a real orgasm,(if you have to ask the women – the answer is most likely “NO”) who gets custody of the CD’s and your friends, and how much maintenance and child support she wants … you wouldn’t be able to ‘bail’ at that point. The police and social workers, judges, crisis intervention teams, female relatives, new boyfriend, and a few other resources will be holding her corner in case you try to fight back.

09-26-2006 09:54 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
OneSmartChick
Regular Contributor
OneSmartChick

That story sounds just like me. I would be married today had I not bailed on the career woman that was giving me the hottest $ex ever. (Question for you:  other than the sex was there something else you liked about her – like her charater, sense of humor, her intelligence, her personality, her judgement, her laugh?) Everything changed after I proposed. I wised up quick to what the he11 was going on, and never seen her since!

I have come to realize that a lot of career women have this certain phenomena. I have come to the realization that most, if not all, career women are going after careers to make-up for their lack of self-esteem. In other words, careers to women (especially child-less women) are the antidote for their very very low self-esteem. Thus, when a man such as myself proposes to one of these career women — I just made the career woman view me with contempt. When a career woman views herself as a piece of sh1t deep down inside herself, any man that proposes to such a piece of sh1t, automatically marks himself as a piece of sh1t (or lower) simply for desiring to marry her/enagement with her/or even saying “i love you” to her. I’ve seen it so many times already, I don’t need further proof.

09-26-2006 10:03 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
porkchops38
Regular Contributor
porkchops38

OneSmartChick wrote:
That story sounds just like me. I would be married today had I not bailed on the career woman that was giving me the hottest $ex ever. (Question for you: other than the sex was there something else you liked about her – like her charater, sense of humor, her intelligence, her personality, her judgement, her laugh?) Everything changed after I proposed. I wised up quick to what the he11 was going on, and never seen her since!

I have come to realize that a lot of career women have this certain phenomena. I have come to the realization that most, if not all, career women are going after careers to make-up for their lack of self-esteem. In other words, careers to women (especially child-less women) are the antidote for their very very low self-esteem. Thus, when a man such as myself proposes to one of these career women — I just made the career woman view me with contempt. When a career woman views herself as a piece of sh1t deep down inside herself, any man that proposes to such a piece of sh1t, automatically marks himself as a piece of sh1t (or lower) simply for desiring to marry her/enagement with her/or even saying “i love you” to her. I’ve seen it so many times already, I don’t need further proof.

Could have been some other reasons why I proposed to her, but I just remember the great sex.

09-26-2006 10:22 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
Termi0n
Regular Contributor
Termi0n

If sex with a career woman is REALLY good, you know she’s settin you up.

Women want fried ice. -Arab Proverb

09-26-2006 10:48 PM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – The Psycho Moment: Engagement

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
Mamonaku
Regular Contributor
Mamonaku
My man did the right thing.

It’s waaay too dangerous nowadays to get into major conflicts with your chick. I’ve seen many a guy locked up because their girlfriends were pissed at em.

Not worth it.

“And I have never looked back. Oh, we had a big talk. It was about as much fun as you’d expect. I got my hair blown back for an hour or so, but I was already numb. She’d been yelling at me about this and that for so long, I couldn’t tell anymore when she was mad or not. Maybe the hardest part was that I was having incredible sucess, in lots of things, while all this was happening.”

Yep, definitely mental!

09-26-2006 10:55 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
MartianBachelor
Regular Contributor
MartianBachelor
…and graduated **bleep** laude…

LMAO! So that’s what that’s called…

I’m gonna have to send my diploma back to have that part corrected.

“The moral to this story? Engagement Ring – $3800.00 (never got it back) Non-Refundable Deposits – $5200.00 (all my money) Moving Expenses – $750.00 Being Single again – Priceless”

Like I’ve said before: an education is free, it’s school that costs money – about $10k in this case.

Message Edited by MartianBachelor on 09-26-200609:12 PM

______________________________________________
“The loudest, most strident voices calling women weak, stupid, and incapable of competing in the world at large are the feminists.” – zed the zen priest

09-26-2006 11:08 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
MartianBachelor
Regular Contributor
MartianBachelor
“I would be married today had I not bailed on the career woman that was giving me the hottest $ex ever. Everything changed after I proposed.”

That reminds me of the Dr. Phil episode a few years ago (when I could stand monitoring the show) where some poor schmuck has dragged his wife on the show for Dr. Phil to fix. He was all perplexed and disappointed that she didn’t want to suck his c0ck anymore, like she had done all the time when they were dating, and she’s like “Eeeew, I ain’t going near that thing – he goes to the bathroom with it – not no way, not no how – that’s awful – how could he ever be so crude to ask that of his wife? – that’s the sort of thing whores do – Eeeeew!!”. You could tell from her expression that she was not disgusted, but instead was rather quite pleased with the bait-and-switch scam she’d pulled off. And, of course, there was nothing Dr. Phil could do (amidst all the giggling) about her adamancy, but smile and shrug.

It’s like test driving a Viper, putting all the money down on it, and then when you go back to drive it away it’s suddenly a Gremlin.

______________________________________________
“The loudest, most strident voices calling women weak, stupid, and incapable of competing in the world at large are the feminists.” – zed the zen priest

09-26-2006 11:34 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
minx12
Regular Contributor
minx12

All I can say is D A M N! Where you guys find these women? That sucks!

I must not make Career woman criteria. I’ve been married 12 years and I LOVE sex. Can’t get enough and I’d be getting more if my stupid schedule coincided a little better with hubby’s, but he works nights and I work days. But we definiitely make the most of what time we have.

Women who cut themselves off from sex are totally robbing themselves, espcially when it comes to fellatio. Tis better to give that receive I always say!

Message Edited by minx12 on 09-26-200609:11 PM

Message Edited by minx12 on 09-26-200609:14 PM

09-27-2006 12:10 AM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
Diogetrix
Regular Contributor
Diogetrix

Ho ho ho (sic) – Looks like I hit the klit .. er, nail … on the head

Message Edited by Diogetrix on 09-27-200612:12 AM

09-27-2006 12:11 AM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
toadman
Regular Contributor
toadman

“It’s waaay too dangerous nowadays to get into major conflicts with your chick. I’ve seen many a guy locked up because their girlfriends were pissed at em.”

So true. Belittling a guy as a “**bleep**” for not standing up for themselves, unaware that standing up for oneself may require verbal and corporal punishment. So the guy stands there, takes it(rather he tunes it out to keep the pressure in check. Ladies, ever get the glossy-eyed, no eye contact “uh huhs” when arguing? He’s tuning out becasue although he may be right, he’s not going to win. If he challenges you to the point of women feeling threatened(physically and verbally) they simply reach for a phone and dial 911.

Like swatting your kids for poor beahvior in public, it’s considered abuse. And ladies, many of you DO act like children needing corrective attitude adjustments. Your saving grace is the 500-lb legal gorilla behind you.

Regardless the woman always emerges victorious in an argument, either as the victor or the victim, whether men participate or not.

09-27-2006 12:13 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
PatriarchVerlch
Regular Contributor
PatriarchVerlch

Your saving grace is the 500-lb legal gorilla behind you.

Someday that Gorilla is not going to be there with such deep pockets to jail every man who doesn’t conform to the system. A quick bloodless back hand aught to correct childlike female behavior! Someday when the American empire crashes, and it will, women will be alot nicer to deal with!

A quick story about the Taliban in Afghanistan. The Taliban fighters were beating the women in line at the food market. A man, and a journalist was standing close by and wondered to the Taliban, “Why do you beat the women and not the men?” Thinking that they were being very sexist. The Taliban answered, “The men stay in line and respect authority, the women don’t.”

So, see, even in a nation that try’s to maintain order by using force, the women still are out of line. In this nation women are 50 times worse and are allowed to act like spoiled rotten children!

Women have been proving for the last 30 years that men have been right for the last 30 centuries!
http://www.verlch.blogspot.com

09-27-2006 12:23 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
Back2TheKitchen
Regular Contributor
Back2TheKitchen

Your saving grace is the 500-lb legal gorilla behind you.

When you get married there are four parties involved:

1) The Man
2) The Woman
3) The State Government
4) The Federal Government

Guess whose side those other two parties are on?

————————————

“With women or the female mindset imparted through feminization on the vast majority of society, it will be very easy to control the Empire…I mean…the republic.” – mirrorofthesoul.blogspot.com

09-27-2006 12:39 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
tellafriend
Regular Contributor
tellafriend

I advocate the use of the backhand as a non-lethal educational measure to be instituted alongside the “No Dumb Biitch Left Behind” bill in which all yappy dumb biitches are brought up to speed by means of a quickly administered theraputic reminder as to why equality only exists on paper. All I need are a few signatures and your vote.

It seems today that whining the loudest and crying the most makes right. But I’m all for the old fashioned principle of might makes right.

Instead of domestic violence classes, I’d like to hold domestic silence classes where men are taught the ancient art of biitchslapping their yapping mate back into a proper frame of mind. Spraying her with a bottle of water just doesn’t get the job done anymore. No doubt feminazis will characterize this as criminal behavior. But I’d submit the blatant criminality of allowing children to rule adults is ample enough justification.

Oh yeah. Just kidding. …………….

09-27-2006 01:09 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
khankrumthebulg
Regular Contributor
khankrumthebulg
The Man weighed his options. I have posted this story elsewhere. I former Business Partner of mine, lives in the SF Bay Area. And is a Senior Executive with a firm there. He went with a Salesman to an appointment and stopped off at the Employee’s condo for a Proposal for a meeting. It was in his bedroom, he noticed cameras facing the Bed. And made a joke. The Salesman told him it was for “Self Defense” from false Rape or Sexual Abuse accusations.

He then told my Friend about a college Buddy of his an Investment Banker in Southern California. Similar story to this one here. His College Buddy had been seeing a Woman for two years. On all apparent levels she appeared to be ideal Wife material. So he goes and buys an engagement ring. It was a $9000 Engagement diamond. He owned his own Luxury Condo, Two luxury vehicles, a Boat, an airplane, and had substantial savings and investments. He made high 6 figure income and was ideal Husband Material. His Fiancee was a “Career Woman”.

He pops the question at a nice Restaurant over Champagne. She sees the ring and says “You must be kidding me”!! I want 3.5 carrots not a carrot less. She was expecting a $25,000 Engagement ring. They have a fight and have Make up sex. She asks him to Spank her during Sex. They have keys to each others place, she has his alarm codes etc.

He falls asleep. She calls the Police and says “He raped Me.” It goes to trial three times, finally he is acquitted. He loses his Cars, Job, Condo, retirement money. It takes him five years to recover and get back to where he was before Career wise.

She tried to destroy his life. I have seen the predatory behavior of Women. My Career wife worked for 7 years in Labor Law for a big Law firm in downtown Dallas. It is a scam being played by Women now.

09-27-2006 02:23 PM

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Click on the board or message subject at the top to return.

Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – The Psycho Moment: Engagement

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
Back2TheKitchen
Regular Contributor
Back2TheKitchen

khankrumthebulg wrote:
I have seen the predatory behavior of Women. It is a scam being played by Women now.

Gents, a must read:

The Predatory Female

http://tinyurl.com/g9yto

http://tinyurl.com/fbgt8

=================================

“With women or the female mindset imparted through feminization on the vast majority of society, it will be very easy to control the Empire…I mean…the republic.” – mirrorofthesoul.blogspot.com

09-27-2006 04:03 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
Mamonaku
Regular Contributor
Mamonaku
There is just something about the Female nature that makes her totally irrational at times.

I’ve personally observed, and been the target of buckwild females that were totally out of control.

As a matter of fact… the only near physical confrontations I’ve been in since High School were with Angry Broads who were pissed off at me for one infration or another. I’ve been out of High School now for 11 years!

When dealing with women… never let them mistake your kindness for weakness. They’ll walk all over you if you let them.

09-27-2006 04:39 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
moneyneversleep
Regular Contributor
moneyneversleep

Hey, angrymuppet, how does that hand feel up your *ss?  They guy did put his foot down, but the lady wouldn’t have it.  He did the right thing, he dtb’d her.  Sometimes the best deals you do are the ones you don’t do…..You p*ssy.

09-27-2006 04:45 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
moneyneversleep
Regular Contributor
moneyneversleep

Go kill yourself.

09-27-2006 04:53 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
Mamonaku
Regular Contributor
Mamonaku
Since we’re on the subject of women being crazy, one of my favorite Greek myths comes to mind; the story of Pandora.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/hesiod/works.htm

Works and Days
by Hesiod.

“… (ll. 42-53) For the gods keep hidden from men the means of life. Else you would easily do work enough in a day to supply you for a full year even without working; soon would you put away your rudder over the smoke, and the fields worked by ox and sturdy mule would run to waste. But Zeus in the anger of his heart hid it, because Prometheus the crafty deceived him; therefore he planned sorrow and mischief against men. He hid fire; but that the noble son of Iapetus stole again for men from Zeus the counsellor in a hollow fennel-stalk, so that Zeus who delights in thunder did not see it. But afterwards Zeus who gathers the clouds said to him in anger:

(ll. 54-59) `Son of Iapetus, surpassing all in cunning, you are glad that you have outwitted me and stolen fire — a great plague to you yourself and to men that shall be. But I will give men as the price for fire an evil thing in which they may all be glad of heart while they embrace their own destruction.’

(ll. 60-68) So said the father of men and gods, and laughed aloud. And he bade famous Hephaestus make haste and mix earth with water and to put in it the voice and strength of human kind, and fashion a sweet, lovely maiden-shape, like to the immortal goddesses in face; and Athene to teach her needlework and the weaving of the varied web; and golden Aphrodite to shed grace upon her head and cruel longing and cares that weary the limbs. And he charged Hermes the guide, the Slayer of Argus, to put in her a shameless mind and a deceitful nature.

(ll. 69-82) So he ordered. And they obeyed the lord Zeus the son of Cronos. Forthwith the famous Lame God moulded clay in the likeness of a modest maid, as the son of Cronos purposed. And the goddess bright-eyed Athene girded and clothed her, and the divine Graces and queenly Persuasion put necklaces of gold upon her, and the rich-haired Hours crowned her head with spring flowers. And Pallas Athene bedecked her form with all manners of finery. Also the Guide, the Slayer of Argus, contrived within her lies and crafty words and a deceitful nature at the will of loud thundering Zeus, and the Herald of the gods put speech in her. And he called this woman Pandora (2), because all they who dwelt on Olympus gave each a gift, a plague to men who eat bread.

(ll. 83-89) But when he had finished the sheer, hopeless snare, the Father sent glorious Argus-Slayer, the swift messenger of the gods, to take it to Epimetheus as a gift. And Epimetheus did not think on what Prometheus had said to him, bidding him never take a gift of Olympian Zeus, but to send it back for fear it might prove to be something harmful to men. But he took the gift, and afterwards, when the evil thing was already his, he understood.

(ll. 90-105) For ere this the tribes of men lived on earth remote and free from ills and hard toil and heavy sickness which bring the Fates upon men; for in misery men grow old quickly. But the woman took off the great lid of the jar (3) with her hands and scattered all these and her thought caused sorrow and mischief to men. Only Hope remained there in an unbreakable home within under the rim of the great jar, and did not fly out at the door; for ere that, the lid of the jar stopped her, by the will of Aegis-holding Zeus who gathers the clouds. But the rest, countless plagues, wander amongst men; for earth is full of evils and the sea is full. Of themselves diseases come upon men continually by day and by night, bringing mischief to mortals silently; for wise Zeus took away speech from them. So is there no way to escape the will of Zeus…”

09-27-2006 05:05 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
juliandroms
Regular Contributor
juliandroms
Legally, she still owes you the ring. You can take her to court for it and probably win, if it hasn’t been too long.

09-27-2006 05:18 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
tellafriend
Regular Contributor
tellafriend

…or you could just take the ring and throw it into the fiery heart of Mount Doom to destroy its evil.

Preferably with her still wearing it.

09-27-2006 06:31 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
MartianBachelor
Regular Contributor
MartianBachelor
LMAO!!! Tellafiend, you’re too much.

“Gents, a must read:
The Predatory Female”

This sounds somewhat similar to the most excellent From Courtship to Courtroom : What Divorce Law is Doing to Marriage, by (attorney) Jed H. Abraham.

Are you familiar with it?

“Abraham is especially good at debunking the commonly held and naive belief among men that it’s those *other* guys who are the jerks and who therefore get screwed by their ex’s and the law in divorce — i.e., that the law is fair and that men get about what they deserve.” – what I wrote in my review six years ago.

______________________________________________
“The loudest, most strident voices calling women weak, stupid, and incapable of competing in the world at large are the feminists.” – zed the zen priest

09-27-2006 09:05 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
Happy_Bullet
Regular Contributor
Happy_Bullet

What a **bleep** and a coward. So instead of standing up to her, telling her what he wanted, and working it out, he caved in to avoid fights, and then bailed.

Okay, AngryMuppet, you have, from time to time, posted some decent relationship advice on here, this is one of those times. However, there is a little irony in the fact that THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE DOING ON HERE and you’re against us on THAT.

Also, your advice essentially means “negotiate”. I mean, you can’t just “tell someone what you want and put your foot down” and it will work 100% of the time. It is a negotiation. In the case above, it was before marriage, so the guy had some leverage.. he had a Best Alternative To Negotiated Agreement that he could live with. Funny thing about negotiations: IF YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO TAKE THE BATNA, IT IS MEANINGLESS. In that case she didn’t come to the negotiation table in a way that was acceptable to him, so he took his BATNA. Once again: TO NEGOTIATE YOU MUST BE WILLING TO TAKE THE BATNA IF THE NEGOTIATION FAILS.

This advice put into the context of “within marriage” under current divorce and domestic violence laws is completely useless:

The man’s BATNA is: “Become a wage slave living alone.”
The woman’s BATNA is: “Basically continue living the same life, except without the man.”

So, the guy is in no position to negotiate jack all.

It is essentially the same as a 10ft turd farmer telling you what to do, so you “be a man”, put your foot down and sort it out.

No. You then get raped in the arse as punishment and forced to do it anyway. You have no choice but to do what he says, or accept punishment as a matter of pride.

Now, it is possible to AVOID that situation. What do you do? be a “real man” and get into it anyway thinking you can sort it out, grunt grunt?

Don’t make me laugh.

p.s.

You are very close to being guilty of “financial abuse” for your actions of “withholding money from the victim” in the above story. You’ve done things like “not trusting the victim’s decision-making” which COUNTS as “emotional abuse”.

You should be ashamed. Abuser. Your wife should be made aware of her rights.

Duh.

Message Edited by Happy_Bullet on 09-27-200611:14 PM

Men have standards. Women will be compared. DEAL WITH IT.

09-27-2006 11:04 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
toadman
Regular Contributor
toadman

“In the case above, it was before marriage, so the guy had some leverage.”

Some but not as much as you think. Filing a restraining order,  false accusations of abuse/rape(as defined by the plaintiff on her terms), defamation of character, possible loss of job, respect, public humiliation amongst family and friends, etc..
You don’t have to be married to experience it.  Hell hath no fury… ring on the finger or not.

09-28-2006 01:02 AM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – The Psycho Moment: Engagement

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
Happy_Bullet
Regular Contributor
Happy_Bullet
Touche Toadman,

You are of course, correct.

A prime example would be in the BocaGuy post, with the women going ballistic and going to the police with accusations of abuse when he dropped them.

Men have standards. Women will be compared. DEAL WITH IT.

09-28-2006 02:11 AM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
AngryMuppet
Regular Contributor
AngryMuppet

Happy_Bullet wrote:

What a **bleep** and a coward. So instead of standing up to her, telling her what he wanted, and working it out, he caved in to avoid fights, and then bailed.

Okay, AngryMuppet, you have, from time to time, posted some decent relationship advice on here, this is one of those times. However, there is a little irony in the fact that THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE DOING ON HERE and you’re against us on THAT.

Also, your advice essentially means “negotiate”. I mean, you can’t just “tell someone what you want and put your foot down” and it will work 100% of the time. It is a negotiation. In the case above, it was before marriage, so the guy had some leverage.. he had a Best Alternative To Negotiated Agreement that he could live with. Funny thing about negotiations: IF YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO TAKE THE BATNA, IT IS MEANINGLESS. In that case she didn’t come to the negotiation table in a way that was acceptable to him, so he took his BATNA. Once again: TO NEGOTIATE YOU MUST BE WILLING TO TAKE THE BATNA IF THE NEGOTIATION FAILS.

This advice put into the context of “within marriage” under current divorce and domestic violence laws is completely useless:

The man’s BATNA is: “Become a wage slave living alone.”
The woman’s BATNA is: “Basically continue living the same life, except without the man.”

So, the guy is in no position to negotiate jack all.

It is essentially the same as a 10ft turd farmer telling you what to do, so you “be a man”, put your foot down and sort it out.

No. You then get raped in the arse as punishment and forced to do it anyway. You have no choice but to do what he says, or accept punishment as a matter of pride.

Now, it is possible to AVOID that situation. What do you do? be a “real man” and get into it anyway thinking you can sort it out, grunt grunt?

Don’t make me laugh.

p.s.

You are very close to being guilty of “financial abuse” for your actions of “withholding money from the victim” in the above story. You’ve done things like “not trusting the victim’s decision-making” which COUNTS as “emotional abuse”.

You should be ashamed. Abuser. Your wife should be made aware of her rights.

Duh.

Message Edited by Happy_Bullet on 09-27-200611:14 PM

I was speaking metaphorically about “putting my foot down.” We did negotiate. The point is I didn’t just give up and give in, only to realize how stupid that was and walk away out tens of thousands of dollars. Contrary to your opinion, I don’t believe for a second that the dude was in “no position to negotiate.” It’s his money. Of course he’s in that position. You can say “No.” And, if I’m being frank, “accepting punishment as a matter of pride” is a pretty manly thing to do. It’s certainly not the coward’s way out. If indeed, as you say, “she didn’t come to the negotiating table in a way that was acceptable to him,” then he should have left her right then and there. That’s what I would have done. He didn’t. He stayed on, dutifully wrote out checks, without ever realizing how idiotic that was. Common sense and some self-confidence would have nipped the whole problem in the bud.

There is also no such thing as “financial abuse” in the sense that you’re talking here. The couple were not married, so she has no standing to bring suit against him. “Not trusting the victim’s decision making” is also not grounds for a lawsuit, though “withholding money” can be provided certain conditions are met (like a signed contract, for example, or a court order), which they were not here. They do not count as “emotional abuse.” I deal with family law cases all the time, far more than any other poster here, I’d imagine, and what you’re saying here is simply not true.

For the record, I’ve done what you guys should all do. My wife and I are not legally married by the state. We believe that the state has no place in the lives of private citizens. We contracted between ourselves the state of our finances should we ever separate, as well as contracting for living will and medical decisions. We had a “wedding ceremony” on our ten-year anniversary together with family and friends. Neither of us believe in spousal support. We didn’t want the state interfering with our relationship, so we took care of business ourselves.

The bottom line is that if you don’t see women as people like yourselves, you’re not going to have a good relationship and you might get screwed. In fact, you’re probably more likely to get screwed, since no woman with an eye toward actually being your partner is going to stand being with a man who hates women. Like it or not, that’s essentially the message many of these posters propagate: they hate women. I don’t see how much good can come from that. And you’ll hate foriegn women, too. I’ve had three cases this year of male-order-brides charging their husbands with battery. All three admitted it as well and told the cops their wives “deserved it.” All but one went to jail.

What’s the one common denominator of all these posters here, Bullet? All of the sob stories, all of the articles and facts culled from studies in foriegn countries or right-wing-propaganda machines (worldnetdaily, anyone)–what’s the common denominator?

Hating women. Insulting women. Degrading women. It’s in almost every post on this board by everyone on your side. And that severely undercuts the few good points you guys do make. But don’t you find it the least bit ironic that the one man here who takes the feminists’ side is apparently one that actually didn’t let the state dictate the terms of his relationship? Don’t you find it in the least bit ironic that the one man here who supports the feminists has essentially gotten exactly what you guys say that you want?

Probably not. You might, bullet, because you seem pretty darned reasonable, but most others won’t I’ll prepare to be called a “mangina” now.

*sigh*

09-28-2006 04:57 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
tellafriend
Regular Contributor
tellafriend

AngryMuppet wrote:

The bottom line is that if you don’t see women as people like yourselves, you’re not going to have a good relationship and you might get screwed. In fact, you’re probably more likely to get screwed, since no woman with an eye toward actually being your partner is going to stand being with a man who hates women. Like it or not, that’s essentially the message many of these posters propagate: they hate women.

Wait a minute, you’re lecturing us on hate?.. Weren’t you the F@GGOT who made a post about wanting to stick you fist up my a$$? Are you trying to sound like an efffing moron or just work on your comedy routine, you dumb biitch?

You just are scared to admit you’re a pussified little girl who put his balls in his wife’s purse and can’t figure out how to get them back now.

Like a biitch, you can lecture and nag us all you want, but real men aren’t scared to call women on their bull$hit feminazi views. Obviously you were raised like a biitch, so you think just like a biitch. This is understandable given that many men are in the same boat as you and just as thoroughly pussified. And like a ridiculous biitch, you can demonize the enemy, us MEN. But that won’t change the facts or the truth: You’re a pussified girly man and you have peniis envy. You want so badly to be able to stand up for yourself, but you’re scared of what women will think of you.

I don’t see how much good can come from that. And you’ll hate foriegn women, too. I’ve had three cases this year of male-order-brides charging their husbands with battery. All three admitted it as well and told the cops their wives “deserved it.” All but one went to jail.

Here we again see the pussified male trying to goose step to feminazi tactics. We’ve seen these bull$hit stats before about how men are evil. Why don’t you go put your skirt on and cry in your panties. You are so ashamed of being a man, just cut off your peniis and donate it to some guy in the war who lost his. Talk about walking manginas

What’s the one common denominator of all these posters here, Bullet? All of the sob stories, all of the articles and facts culled from studies in foriegn countries or right-wing-propaganda machines (worldnetdaily, anyone)–what’s the common denominator?

You crying like a little biitch? Just a lucky guess

Hating women. Insulting women. Degrading women.

HAHAHAHAHA Here we go again. Another pussified guy trying to bark at other guys like a silly biitch. Yeah why don’t you go get some curlers and put them in your hair along with your cucumber mask. Yeah we know, men are bad and pussies like you are good.  Close your magina legs already it smells like rotten tuna in here.

Why don’t you just go back to making your homosexual fisting posts. At least then I can take you seriously

It’s in almost every post on this board by everyone on your side. And that severely undercuts the few good points you guys do make.

Hahahah.. we’re getting a pat on the back from this ridiculous biitch? Great. The pink team is throwing a tantrum. boo-hoo.

But don’t you find it the least bit ironic that the one man here who takes the feminists’ side is apparently one that actually didn’t let the state dictate the terms of his relationship? Don’t you find it in the least bit ironic that the one man here who supports the feminists has essentially gotten exactly what you guys say that you want?

What’s ironic is that a silly biitch like you is trying to lecture MEN on how to behave. All this come from a guy into homosexual “fisting” activity. Why don’t you go film another gay porn video and then come back and lecture us on irony again you ridiculous biitch

This guy sounds just like the pusssies on Leykis 101 who call up a few years later after bragging about how big of a mangina they are and end up telling Tom, “you were…*crying*….right….*sniffle*…. i AM A BIITCH….*crying*” We’ve already seen it Ma’ma.

Probably not. You might, bullet, because you seem pretty darned reasonable, but most others won’t I’ll prepare to be called a “mangina” now.

I bet we’re not the only ones who refer to you as a “mangina”. Talk about professional victims. Next you’re going to whine that people call you a homosexual just because you like trying to fist guys up the a$$.

The nerve!

*sigh*

09-28-2006 05:45 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
AngryMuppet
Regular Contributor
AngryMuppet
Try as you might to characterize me otherwise, I have not whined about one single thing on this board, and your silly little “mangina” comments don’t faze me in the least. It’s obvious you’re trolling here for the humor value hoping to get a rise out of people. To me, that’s a pretty pathetic thing to be doing, but to each his own. bottom line is that you can’t back up your bravado, and everyone knows you can’t.

09-28-2006 05:50 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
tellafriend
Regular Contributor
tellafriend

AngryMuppet wrote:
Try as you might to characterize me otherwise, I have not whined about one single thing on this board, and your silly little “mangina” comments don’t faze me in the least. It’s obvious you’re trolling here for the humor value hoping to get a rise out of people. To me, that’s a pretty pathetic thing to be doing, but to each his own. bottom line is that you can’t back up your bravado, and everyone knows you can’t.

Oh so that’s why you’ve been CRYING LIKE A LITTLE BIITCH about my posts? Talk about hypocrisy, you mischaracterize and demonize the REAL MEN on here and now you’re going to throw a tantrum that people are giving you back your own medicine? awwwwww poor little girl!

Is that why you lashed out at me in anger and posted your homosexual fisting fantasies? Hey, like I said before, if you like digging into other mens’ asses, be my guest. Now we know why you picked that name in the first place

And just like you cried on the Leykis boards, here you are crying like a little MAGINA on here too. Big shocker.

And like a dumb biitch you can’t even follow your own advice. Which is it dumba$$? Ignore me or hang on my every word? hahaha.. Wow you’re stupid huh

You’re a little trolling biitch trying to peddle your feminazi doctrines, hoping other pussified men will support you and your training bra.. Hey I really can’t help it if you want to act like a total idiot in public and then I simply point it out. Maybe if you didn’t act like such a ridiculous mangina, we wouldn’t all be laughing in your direction

But that’s okay. If you want to cry like a little biitch over and over about how I’m hurting your feelings, you’re in for a long haul, Sister. You better get your 20 boxes of Kleenex ready.

And the only “bravado” here is a little bitch mangina like you trying to act tough. It’s cute when you pout, Pumpkin *pinching your cheeks*

Now run along and play with your dolls

Message Edited by tellafriend on 09-28-200608:00 PM

09-28-2006 07:57 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
AngryMuppet
Regular Contributor
AngryMuppet
For one, I have never posted on the Tom Leykis message boards, nor have I ever visited his website. If anyone is posting there under AngryMuppet, I can guarantee you it’s not me.

And trust me, I’m not angry with you in the least. Nor are my feelings hurt. Being called a “mangina” or whatever else doesn’t bother me. As flame wars go, this one is very tame. Relax. You’re just not that important.

09-28-2006 08:03 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
tellafriend
Regular Contributor
tellafriend

AngryMuppet wrote:
For one, I have never posted on the Tom Leykis message boards, nor have I ever visited his website. If anyone is posting there under AngryMuppet, I can guarantee you it’s not me.

That’s okay, Pumpkin, I won’t tell anyone your secret. If i was a scared biitch like you, I’d be worried about that getting out too. But that’s a good idea. Just deny it because you want to keep your emasculated denial instincts strong. You never know when you’ll have to pull the chick card on a guy.

And trust me, I’m not angry with you in the least. Nor are my feelings hurt. Being called a “mangina” or whatever else doesn’t bother me. As flame wars go, this one is very tame. Relax. You’re just not that important.

Awwwww the little girl is going to cry hahah.. I didn’t mean to hurt you feelings, Pumpkin. *patting you on the head* There there, Princess. I know you’re angry with me just because I pointed out that you left a homosexual fantasy post about fisting. Don’t get your panties all bunched up. You’ll get over it. Just write in your diary about all the bad men you were bitter at today. And right next to it write “tellafriend doesn’t matter. He doesn’t matter!!! he doesn’t matter!!!!! he doesn’t he doesn’t he doesn’t!!!!”

Good girl!

09-28-2006 11:18 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
Happy_Bullet
Regular Contributor
Happy_Bullet

Okay that was a reasonably good post AngryMuppet…

There are two things about your situation that I consider flawed:

1. The goverment does not support what you have done.

2. Palimony.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palimony

The US considers cohabitation legally the same as marriage when it comes to government interference. As far as child support is concerned it makes little difference whether you are married or not. Boys that have been raped by their teachers have been hit with child support.

The UK currently doesn’t have palimony but feminists are working to change that situation:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,200-2371443,00.html

What appears on the surface to be good about your situation is that you are not legally married by the state. I don’t believe the state has a place in family affairs either, but that’s MY point.

It’s the reason I won’t marry either. So we’re supporting the same thing there.

Simple fact is, although I can respect you’ve tried to make things work fairly, you’ve simply been duped in the end. Are you aware that you can end up in exactly the same situation is a legally married guy? Your tactfully negotiated agreement will be for naught at that stage.

The reason I’m against the feminists is because they are the ones that “made the personal political” and lobbied the government to interfere in family affairs.

Wouldn’t it be better if the government supported what we both consider to be correct?

This is also not taking into account things like VAWA. The only way I can settle this is by quoting from the legislation. Even then you are doing things like not accepting studies done in other western nations like Australia as relevant, and dismissing studies not done by, but cited by organisations like MediaRadar. The actual studies are from:

http://www.ncfmla.org/gelles.html
School of Social Work University of Pennsylvania

http://www.fact.on.ca/news/news0011/ti001119.htm
British Crime Survey reported in 1996 that an equal proportion of men and women, 4.2%, had said they had been physically assaulted by a current or former spouse or lover in the past year.

http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm
California State University, Long Beach
SUMMARY:  This bibliography examines 195 scholarly investigations: 152 empirical studies and 43 reviews and/or analyses, which demonstrate that women are as physically aggressive, or more aggressive, than men in their relationships with their spouses or male partners.  The aggregate sample size in the reviewed studies exceeds 175,700.

http://www.mediaradar.org/ja_sex_differences.php
John Archer, PhD
Psychological Bulletin

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5003a1.htm
The CDC.

And, if I’m being frank, “accepting punishment as a matter of pride” is a pretty manly thing to do. It’s certainly not the coward’s way out.

Okay I think this is where myself and other people on here don’t understand your position. Your statement above is 100% correct and I couldn’t agree more, however, if you can AVOID being put in a situation where you must accept the other sides terms, or accept this, then surely avoiding it, and advocating avoiding it, is reasonable.

I’m assuming you’d consider it as reasonable as you have actually taken steps to ensure this in your marriage.

That’s what I consider to be going on here, in terms of avoiding high risk women (career women), and avoiding high risk situations (marriage).

So I don’t get your disagreement there.

Hating women. Insulting women. Degrading women. It’s in almost every post on this board by everyone on your side. And that severely undercuts the few good points you guys do make. But don’t you find it the least bit ironic that the one man here who takes the feminists’ side is apparently one that actually didn’t let the state dictate the terms of his relationship? Don’t you find it in the least bit ironic that the one man here who supports the feminists has essentially gotten exactly what you guys say that you want?

Somewhat, but I don’t think your situation is stable anyway. Even if it was it wouldn’t be government sanctioned. If you lived in the UK, where palimony doesn’t currently exist work that will more than likely succeed is going on to change that.

Yea.. this is a difficult one. Naturally in the context of a relationship you *are* just supposed to trust the other party and give it your all. Calm negotiation has it’s place rather than aggressive negotiation. You’re already in the situation at that point.

We’re of the opinion that “not getting along either” is our only recourse. That is in a meta-relationship socio-political context though. Naturally, we’d be crazy to bring this stuff up, this aggresively, with wives or girlfriends. At the same time we must avoid putting ourselves in situations in which the deck is stacked against us.

Again it’s like a negotiation. One side can’t do all the work. We’re seeing laws that put all the obligation for “getting along” on men and none on women.

It’s certainly *not* like feminists are coming to the party on this, I mean you only have to look at some of the quotes posted on here from feminists.

The “kicking women” thing is controversial even within the ranks of MRAs… Personally I think feminists should be used as a substitute, but it’s difficult to not criticize to get a point across. It’s also difficult not to get annoyed (I’m sure you can relate to this.. LOL), anyway I do have a lot of respect for guys on here like Mamonaku who can make their point without getting pissed.

Is what you are worried about, is that most of the people on here would rather just subjugate women than reach some sort of actual win-win agreement?

I can understand that.. but at the moment my honest opinion is that the pendulum needs to swing in the other direction before we can adequately negotiate. Once that has happened, I’d be a lot happier that guys like you are around to make sure things don’t get out of hand from our side.

We can’t simply accept a raw deal in the name of manhood… We’ve been asked to do that for a long time and it hasn’t worked out.

In one of your previous posts, you said that you believe there is a crisis of manhood in this country. I agree with you on that, but I also do blame feminists for it. I mean, you can see it in all their literature directly demonizing masculine characteristics and characterising men as abusers. It’s been accepted into mainstream media and education.

There’s a saying, I think coined during Vietnam: “Fighting for peace is like f*cking for virginity”. You know, I am friends with a lot of married guys, or very committed guys, and I *NEVER* try to convert them to an anti-feminist viewpoint. This is because I am aware that it is not going to do them any good. They are already married. They’ve made the commitment. They have to approach things from a “getting along” perspective. I can see this is your situation as well.

Honestly I’d rather not try to get you to see my point on these grounds, but at the same time you’re going to have to leave us to tell the truth.

I’m aware there is such a thing as a self-fulfilling prophecy. But throughout history almost any side that was an aggressor has accused the other side of living out a self-fulfilling prophecy when they aren’t trusted.

My situation is I can fight this injustice without affecting myself or someone I’m supposed to be getting along with, because I’m not married.  Your personal situation is risky and I’d rather not be in it. I have to advise other men to take the same course of action.

It’s true that to get along you have to try to, but if one side is truly aggressive, what is the other option? Hey, maybe you’d be able to legally marry your wife one of these days as a result of people like the guys on here.

Message Edited by Happy_Bullet on 09-29-200608:04 AM

Men have standards. Women will be compared. DEAL WITH IT.

09-29-2006 04:59 AM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
MartianBachelor
Regular Contributor
MartianBachelor
Happy wrote… “1. The goverment does not support what you have done.”

The gum’mint will enforce some contracts in this area but not others, and you won’t know exactly how it will turn out until it becomes a matter of contention. Before that, it’s a good lawyer’s best guess. Seems like pretty thin ice to be out on. One is basically relying on the continued future good will and integrity of the other party, which is most likely to evaporate precisely at the time the nature of the relationship changes, which is when you need it most.

I noticed there was no mention in AM’s original post bragging about his “contract” which had anything to do with kids. Those are the things which you cannot contract on (custody or child support), and if kids are involved it’ll end up just like any other divorce — except that you’re in probably a slightly worse position than Joe Hubbie would be. You’re certainly not in a better position. Maybe the State you’re in is different from most others. So, again, I think you’re relying on the good will and integrity of the other party to live up to what you agreed to years earlier and in an entirely different context, even though there’s not necessarily any incentive for them to do so at the point in time when you split, and as has been pointed out many times here there are counter-incentives which can operate against you. Again, it’s fundamentally a crap-shoot. Some of us don’t play the lotteries.

I think you’ve maybe just deluded yourself in a slightly more clever way than average. Since the gum’mint won’t enforce a marriage contract, it’s hard to see how it would have any interest in enforcing your non-marriage alternative to same either. Pretty hard to fool the long arm of the law.

So, no, I don’t envy your position in the least. It’s not what I want, as you mistakenly thought.

But good luck with all that – hope it turns out better than your non-marriage w/tellafriend…

Sorry for eavesdropping and tossing my $0.02 in.

______________________________________________
“The loudest, most strident voices calling women weak, stupid, and incapable of competing in the world at large are the feminists.” – zed the zen priest

09-29-2006 08:24 AM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
tellafriend
Regular Contributor
tellafriend

MartianBachelor wrote:
Happy wrote… “1. The goverment does not support what you have done.”

The gum’mint will enforce some contracts in this area but not others, and you won’t know exactly how it will turn out until it becomes a matter of contention. Before that, it’s a good lawyer’s best guess. Seems like pretty thin ice to be out on. One is basically relying on the continued future good will and integrity of the other party, which is most likely to evaporate precisely at the time the nature of the relationship changes, which is when you need it most.

I noticed there was no mention in AM’s original post bragging about his “contract” which had anything to do with kids. Those are the things which you cannot contract on (custody or child support), and if kids are involved it’ll end up just like any other divorce — except that you’re in probably a slightly worse position than Joe Hubbie would be. You’re certainly not in a better position. Maybe the State you’re in is different from most others. So, again, I think you’re relying on the good will and integrity of the other party to live up to what you agreed to years earlier and in an entirely different context, even though there’s not necessarily any incentive for them to do so at the point in time when you split, and as has been pointed out many times here there are counter-incentives which can operate against you. Again, it’s fundamentally a crap-shoot. Some of us don’t play the lotteries.

I think you’ve maybe just deluded yourself in a slightly more clever way than average. Since the gum’mint won’t enforce a marriage contract, it’s hard to see how it would have any interest in enforcing your non-marriage alternative to same either. Pretty hard to fool the long arm of the law.

So, no, I don’t envy your position in the least. It’s not what I want, as you mistakenly thought.

But good luck with all that – hope it turns out better than your non-marriage w/tellafriend…

Sorry for eavesdropping and tossing my $0.02 in.

Also commenting on the post above yours as well.

Here’s the problem: You’re trying to cater to children. You can reason with ADULTS. Children are incapable of reasoning because reasoning forces you to critically examine your own motives and position. Children ASSUME they are right because being right, for them, is connected to their self-esteem. It is not yet wholly connected to the truth or facts. This is why Angry Muppet reacts like a child when the truth is presented to him. This is why he lashes out like a child and makes angry homosexual fisting posts. His self-esteem is threatened by the truth. He doesn’t want to face the idiocy behind his marriage decision.

And like a typical idiot, he assumes the State will have nothing to say about his marriage if it should take a dive. He’s so naive as to assume that simply not having a legal contract will absolve him of all legal responsibilites.

Hey Idiot (aka Angry Muppet), I know you haven’t been keeping up with current events, but men have been put under increasing legal pressure WITH AND WITHOUT legal contracts. The State has become Big Brother and is actively TELLING men what they are obligated to do whether they agreed to it in a legal contract or not. So you’re gambling with your own gullibility not with our skepticism. You’re the one who’s going to get the shaft if there is a shaft to be gotten. But like other naive morons like you, assume the best before being blind sided by the worst. You have a vested interest in justifying your idiocy– your balls are in your wife’s purse. You’re not only pussified by your upbringing, you’re also pussified by your own design which has now put you in this precarious position in the first place. I’d love to see the comical look on your face when the judge saddles you with obligations you didn’t sign up for “in the interest of feminists.. er.. fairness” and you sit there with a stupid look on your face and say, “But Your Honor…. I never agreed to that! WAHHHHHH!!” That’s about the time I’ll putting an “I TOLD YOU SO” sign right below the “KICK ME” sign her lawyers will be taping to your gullible naive back.

Just like a biitch, you can mischaracterize men all you want. You can assign us irrational anger, sexual impotence, small peniises, fear of committment, etc. all you want if it will help justify your own delusional feminazi platform and perserve your self-esteem. But we both know the real story. You’re just a pussified little girly man who is throwing a tantrum and pouting over the fact that you made a stupid, short-sighted decision. So now you have to justify it by trying to prove that every man on here is wrong.

Maybe if you post another homosexual fisting fantasy it will lend even more credibility to your pouty feminist cause. Grow up, Junior.

09-29-2006 12:25 PM

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Reader Response to “Don’t Marry Career Women” – The Psycho Moment: Engagement

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
tellafriend
Regular Contributor
tellafriend

B.A. wrote:

The “kicking women” thing is controversial even within the ranks of MRAs… Personally I think feminists should be used as a substitute, but it’s difficult to not criticize to get a point across. It’s also difficult not to get annoyed (I’m sure you can relate to this.. LOL), anyway I do have a lot of respect for guys on here like Mamonaku who can make their point without getting pissed.

Here’s another fundamental point that most guys miss.

Let me try to simplify it:

Men are reasonable.

Women are unreasonable which puts them in the category of children. They are not only unreasonable in nature, they are TAUGHT to be unreasonable. Pussified and emasculated men REINFORCE the power of being unreasonable. To get a woman to reason effectively is like getting a leprechuan to tell you where his gold is. Women don’t want to sacrifice the self-esteem they’ve cultivated over the years, regardless of how delusionally it may be.

This is why reason is not the most effective tool when deal with children. If a child is unreasonable and finds more comfort and influence in whining, then it will continue to do that which is easiest to do. The truth is a chore. And to build character in any child, chores need to be given.

Some children don’t want to do chores so they rebel against the authority over them, refusing to do their chores. A wise adult will realize that the matter is now a question of authority, not simply of refusal to accept the truth. So punishment is in order. It’s not enough to simply reason with disobedience. Children will mischaracterize this as you being “mean.” Adults will wisely characterize this as “discipline.”

Plants receive discipline to grow and produce better fruit. Dogs receive discipline to be acceptable and useful to their masters. People receive discipline to develop their character and profit their usefulness to society.

Adults can hear each other because they have self-discipline. They give themselves chores in the form of truth and critical examination. Sometimes adults don’t like what they find. But they are willing and able to discover it, that’s the key difference. They don’t shrug off the truth to preserve their self-esteem. They care for the truth in spite of their self-esteem. The serving of the many supercedes the serving of the one. The truth of a cohesive society supercedes the comfort of the individual. The chore of self-examination is the cure to the lazy inclination of self-esteem.

Women and pussified men have not been taught these “chores”. Therefore reason is out of the question. Discipline comes before reason. One MUST be disciplined in order to be WILLING to reason. A spoiled brat needs INCENTIVE to do what is uncomfortable. Otherwise when faced with the choice between the comfort of receiving and the discomfort of sacrifice, it will always choose the most comfortable position. Only a child who has been disciplined to face the truth will CONSIDER choosing an uncomfortable position. Women who have not be disciplined by the truth will NEVER consider the more reasonable position that men offer. Reason is uncomfortable to those more concerned with juvenile matters like self-esteem.

So the reasonable approach requires discipline. Which means it’s unreasonable to reason with someone who is incapable of appreciating the merit of reason. It’s more reasonable to discipline such childish behavior BEFORE introducing reason, otherwise reason will have nowhere to seat itself in that individual.

These “reasons” should be for the benefit of men on here to make them more aware of the problem. Feminists who are in an arrested state of development are unable to appreciate such reason until they are naturally disciplined by the consequences of the truth (divorce, being angry, bitter and unhappy with life, etc.) or by those who take it upon themselves to offer such discipline.

To make a long story short, I am freely offering a kick in the a$$ to every feminist on here, Crazy Cat Ladies and Pussified Males alike. If you can’t take your medicine with a drop of honey, then you can take it with a drop of size 13 boot.

09-29-2006 01:22 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
AngryMuppet
Regular Contributor
AngryMuppet
To make a long story short, I am freely offering a kick in the a$$ to every feminist on here, Crazy Cat Ladies and Pussified Males alike. If you can’t take your medicine with a drop of honey, then you can take it with a drop of size 13 boot.

LOL. YOU’RE threatening people? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! **bleep**, thanks dude. I needed a good laugh today.

09-29-2006 02:01 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
AngryMuppet
Regular Contributor
AngryMuppet
Happy, I don’t have time to address all of your points, but you can rest assured that the legal issues you brought up regarding me and my wife’s arrangement were already forseen neither I (nor my wife) are in any danger from them. We have a legal arrangement, contracted between ourselves. There are, in fact, several groups who help couples do this sort of thing. Mostly gay couples take advantage of it, but straight couples do as well. I have certainly not been duped by anyone.

As far as DV goes, I’m not surprised by the relative equality of the statistics on simple assault. But the data are very misleading. Once the crimes escalate, you’ll find that the balance disappears. Women are far more likely to be systematically beaten repeatedly. Men are far more likely to kill their spouses than women. Cherry-picking a little of the stats here and there will definitely support your arguments, but looking at the forrest for the trees will show you a different story, and one you don’t clearly don’t want to hear. (BTW, the same is true for basically ALL crimes. Men and women are perpetrators in relatively equal numbers for things like shoplifting and simple assault. The more serious the crime, though, the more likely a man committed it. I’m not bashing men here, I am one. But facts are facts. Isolating some without looking at the whole picture is dishonest, man.)

09-29-2006 02:12 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
tellafriend
Regular Contributor
tellafriend

awww PUMPKIN! Don’t pout! I tried.

Now I know it’s not as threatening as your homosexual fisting fantasies you post.

But I guess that sort of comes with the job of being an angry muppet HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

09-29-2006 02:33 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
Happy_Bullet
Regular Contributor
Happy_Bullet

Hey AngryMuppet,

Perhaps you could give us some details of one or more of those groups, then we could make a more informed decision. If it is a viable middle ground then you could be doing everyone a favour here.

The thing I find interesting is that, if I am paraphrasing your relationship advice here:

Honestly tell a woman what you want, instead of going along with her way and bottling up anger (which gets released later).

Don’t be a pushover because you think it’s what women want.

Is advice I’ve heard before from pro-male relationship books like No More Mr Nice Guy. I totally agree with this stuff. You’re preaching to the choir here.

By and large though, I thought it was quite easy to see that feminism was to blame for men acting this way.

Feminism is like the legalisation of the classic female dilemma:

* She wants a real man around
* She wants him to do what she wants

If guys just do everything a woman wants they are not a real man. Dilemma!

Anyway, the message sent to guys these days is to cater to women’s needs, women are more important than men, men are abusers etc. etc.

The advice you’ve given on here is the advice that I always thought should be given to guys that legitimately beat their wives. They need to learn relationship skills more than anything else. What you’ve done is hold aspects of masculinity in a positive light to motivate. I’ve no doubt that your marriage has lasted 15 years based on the advice you’ve given on here.

You are aware though, that this is *not* the counselling that wife batterers actually get. They get along the lines of “your masculine tendencies are causing you to be aggressive and discriminate against women”. Ironically, taking on this sort of belief system makes them more likely to do things like “go along with what the wife wants and bottle up the anger”.

Interesting objection to the stats. I’m willing to face any facts you put forth. If I am not honest then what I am saying won’t be accepted by the majority of people. I don’t get the logic though on the escalation to “a pattern of abuse” being higher in men although the statistics on abuse across the board indicate relative equality.

There were statistics presented that showed men suffer over one-third of DV injuries, so I’m assuming you mean “a pattern” rather than “more seriously”, apart from the murder part, which I will deal with separately.

Your analogy to shoplifting vs more serious stealing offences I don’t think can really be considered as solid. If you were saying that men were more likely to REPEATEDLY shoplift, then it would be, but that’s not what you’re saying.

More serious does not equal repeated.

Wrt the claim men kill spouses more often, this one is true! But consider this:

In 1976 in the US, ~1600 men committed spousal murder.
In 1976 in the US, ~1500 women committed spousal murder.
In 2002 in the US, ~1300 men committed spousal murder.
In 2002 in the US, ~500 women committed spousal murder.

So, for some reason the female on male rate has become significantly lower NOW than the male on female rate. Coincidentally, 1976 was around the start of the feminist movement’s push on domestic violence issues.

Care to speculate on the reason for this?

Here’s one theory: Women are given a viable alternative (calling the cops), and men are not.

It can be argued that around 700 women lost their lives as a RESULT of one-sided handling of domestic abuse cases.

Message Edited by Happy_Bullet on 09-29-200610:40 PM

Men have standards. Women will be compared. DEAL WITH IT.

09-29-2006 10:25 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
AngryMuppet
Regular Contributor
AngryMuppet
Okay. Excellent post. Since you obviously put a lot of thought into it, I’ll do so as well. Let me put together a more thoughtful reply.

Message Edited by AngryMuppet on 09-29-200610:44 PM

09-29-2006 10:41 PM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
tellafriend
Regular Contributor
tellafriend

AngryMuppet wrote:
Happy, I don’t have time to address all of your points, but you can rest assured that the legal issues you brought up regarding me and my wife’s arrangement were already forseen neither I (nor my wife) are in any danger from them. We have a legal arrangement, contracted between ourselves. There are, in fact, several groups who help couples do this sort of thing. Mostly gay couples take advantage of it, but straight couples do as well. I have certainly not been duped by anyone.

As far as DV goes, I’m not surprised by the relative equality of the statistics on simple assault. But the data are very misleading. Once the crimes escalate, you’ll find that the balance disappears. Women are far more likely to be systematically beaten repeatedly. Men are far more likely to kill their spouses than women. Cherry-picking a little of the stats here and there will definitely support your arguments, but looking at the forrest for the trees will show you a different story, and one you don’t clearly don’t want to hear. (BTW, the same is true for basically ALL crimes. Men and women are perpetrators in relatively equal numbers for things like shoplifting and simple assault. The more serious the crime, though, the more likely a man committed it. I’m not bashing men here, I am one. But facts are facts. Isolating some without looking at the whole picture is dishonest, man.)

Basically what this emasculated biitch is trying to say is that men are BAD!

Now that you’re done giving us the Tampax version of history, how about you grow a pair of balls and figure out why men beat their women. You’re like a woman who blames the rain for getting her wet while she’s standing outside in a storm. Instead of whining about the problem, how about you NOT CAUSE the problem in the first place.

You’re not too bright.

09-30-2006 12:53 AM

Re: The Psycho Moment: Engagement
Happy_Bullet
Regular Contributor
Happy_Bullet

Tellafriend:

I just realised from your quoting me as B.A. that you think I’m this Brian Armstrong guy. I don’t even know what the other forum is.. If you could direct me to it I would love to see someone who people can mistake for me, then I can see if his views sound good etc. if he sounds like an affable fellow or not… LOL.

I’m not Brian Armstrong. I’ve never heard of Brian Armstrong. By all means clue me in.

Men have standards. Women will be compared. DEAL WITH IT.

09-30-2006 01:59 AM

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